Modern Homes standards expert technical forum

I apologize in advance if my voice is a bit gravelly, today is the last of four weeks where I think I've spent more time on planes than on the ground. That's catching up with me a bit.

And I will also apologize that I think I'm going to get into trouble, you said no policy and here we go first slide, I’ll be very quick on this, I thought I would just give before I talk about how we develop provisions, talk a little bit about the background of how we got here.

These provisions have both got a long history to them. The livable housing provisions actually date back to 2010 when there was a voluntary agreement formed between government, community organisations, advocates and industry that aimed to deliver 100% of new housing at Silver Standard by 2020.

And when we got closer to that date and were finding that we weren't getting the sort of progress on ground that we had all hoped for, and that we'd all committed to, that was the point at which ministers asked that we look at a regulatory response.

Similarly for the energy efficiency provisions in 2018, 2019, energy ministers from across the country prepared a master plan for the pathway to get all of our buildings towards net zero and they produced a document called the Trajectory for Low Energy Buildings and that requires us to look in alternate cycles between improving the energy efficiency of residential buildings and improving the energy efficiency of our commercial buildings.

And so those are the sorts of national commitments that led us down the path towards these provisions. In terms of how we go about our work for those who don't know, the ABCB (Australian Building Codes Board) is an organisation that exists as a partnership between the states and territories, all of the states and territories and the Commonwealth government.

And our job is to write a national standard that tries to harmonise the approach to building, safety, quality, access, amenities, sustainability across the country. Our general aim is to do this with minimum necessary regulations, so whenever we get a policy instruction from ministers like liveable housing or energy efficiency, we start to look for the most cost-effective ways to achieve that change.

And I know there'll always be more expensive ways or more complex ways to achieve those same ambitions, and that's okay we accept beyond compliance or over compliance in many parts of the code, but when we try to guide the development of rules or when we prepare rules our aim is to try to find that most efficient way to achieve the policy objective.

So for energy efficiency just to give you a bit of a sense of the sort of analysis that we do. For houses we look across each and every one of the NCC climate zones and we prepare a sample of housing typologies to analyze. And in this case we look at 10 different house types. We look at small homes, large homes, concrete slab, stump construction, masonry construction, lightweight cladding, single story, two story.

We cranked through all of those and we used those to help guide the changes that we would need to make for each particular construction type in each particular climate zone. And so of relevance to Queensland, we had very specific case studies that looked at each of the relevant climate zones, and in fact our consultation report showed some worked-through case studies for Cairns, Brisbane and Longreach.

We also had analysis for other climate zones that are represented in Queensland, and when we then turn that into some more detailed guidance, this is all at the consultation stage even before decisions are made. We put together quite detailed tables and I've pulled one part of a table from one of the housing types for one of the climate zones.

There are actually about 15 pages of this sort of information, but it shows for each given house typology that we studied and each climate zone, what do we think the nature of the changes are that would move it from the old rules to the new rule?

And in this table the shaded squares, you won't be able to read the detail but what you'll see is the shading is where we thought there'd be a change needed. So when we set about our minimum pathway, we did look for the fewest number of changes, the smallest change that would achieve the policy aim.

Again for livable housing, the focus was on codifying the smallest number of changes that would help improve livability. The aim was to do that cost-effectively and I think the first thing that I'd say about the livable housing provisions is they actually make homes more livable for everyone. So every feature that helps a person with a small wheelchair or a walking frame get around, also helps a parent with a pram or a sports person on crutches or a clumsy toddler who's running around.

And I guess I'd also observe none of us ever noticed the times that we didn't stub our toe coming in the front door or getting out of the shower. So these are things that make homes more livable for all of us, but with any process where we are writing a set of complex rules, there are things that are going to be not quite right.

And so with the livable housing provisions in particular after ministers had made their first decision, we had need to pull together an implementation review group that included members of industry, members of advocate groups, representatives of jurisdictions. Where we went through and looked at things like the sort of door profiles that were available in the market, that would comply or wouldn’t comply, and made sure that we were able to refine details to make them as workable as possible on ground.

That group came together over the course of two or three meetings, and in terms of the collaboration, I don't think I've seen too many better examples where people came in and said all right we've got a decision, we've got some problems that we all agree need to be solved, let's crank out some practical solutions.

And I was pretty impressed with the way the people who sat around that table got things done. You'll hear a lot today with examples of how to optimise compliance, how to implement these. We also have materials available on our website and I'd encourage you to have a look. Samples there of three different handbooks that support energy efficiency and livable housing. Our website is pretty easy, abcb.gov.au and I'd encourage you to jump on there and have a look. Thank you.

Okay so before I start I should just caveat this a little bit. I will be talking specifically about

the building fabric and the change from six-star regulations pre-NCC 2022 to seven-star regulations post-NCC 2022 with a focus on class one.

So we do have data on class two. I can talk about that but I just assumed that the people in the room would be more interested in class one for the purposes of this conversation. And we don't yet have data flowing on the whole of home provisions that I can share with you, so this is strictly building fabric at the moment.

So NatHERS use in Queensland. You can see there are some average star ratings there across the different climate zones that are in Queensland. So that's by climate zone in the year to 1 May 2024 that you're seeing there. Just a bit of background.

So a little bit on NatHERS use in Queensland. Queensland has a reasonably low use of NatHERS compared to some of the other states and territories. So for class one, 58 certificates are generated for every 100 building permits issued. So this is comparing NatHERS certificate data to the Australian Bureau of Statistics building permits data. And for class two, 77 certificates for every 100 permits and increasing.

This is a bit of a view of how quickly is industry starting to take on the seven-star minimum standard. So Queensland was already converging on seven-star ahead of 1 May 2024. There were already a reasonably high percentage of residences that were complying with or overachieving seven stars. There's been a slight quickening of pace that we've seen since. You can see the red dashed line there for when NCC 2022 was implemented.

And what does the certificate data tell us? So this is a bit of a complex table, so I'm going to go through it in a little bit of detail and hopefully my animations will work so what you're seeing here is a comparison of the certificates generated to the six-star standard before 1 May 2024, and the certificates generated after 1 May 2024 in the 7 to 8 star bin basically.

So what we're what I'm trying to do here with this chart is compare how people were complying with the six-star regulation. So just above six-star with how they're complying with just above seven-star since the change in regulations.

So you can see here these are the certificates generated before 1 May 2024. And this is the certificates generated after 1 May 2024. This was what the minimum standards looked like when people were building to the previous standard and this is the minimum standards now.

So when we look at the average star rating, we can see that there has been a change from 6.4 average star rating up to 7.4 average star rating. So essentially there's been a jump of one star in the data that we've seen so far.

When you look at the total floor area less garage, there's been absolutely no change, an average of 128 square metres. When you look at the window area, we've seen a slight decrease of two square meters, which represents a change from 22.4% of the window-to-floor area ratio, down to 21.25%.  So that's essentially the only change that we can see in the aggregate data.

So then we have a look at the floor types and have a look comparing pre and post NCC 2022. Basically there has been a slight shift away from waffle pod towards concrete slab on ground for reasons I don't completely understand in Queensland. And there's been absolutely no change in the number of timber floor constructions and so on coming through.

There's no change in wall types. So this is what the wall type split looks like. Can people see the text on that? It's a little bit small for me to see on my screen, but we'll share the slides afterwards I hope, and you should be able to read it on the slides. Essentially that's brick veneer at the top, then there's AAC is the next one down and I think it's fibre cement is the third one down. So the dominant wall type that's being yeah those and there’s concrete block is the other large one about halfway down, but there's been no change in these percentages pre and post NCC 2022.

Insulation we have seen some changes so I hope that's a bit more readable. But essentially what you've got down the bottom is different R values and you can see that we have gone from… I need my glasses on this… it's, I can't see the actual R value there, but the lower R value average has gone down and there has been an increase in higher R values in those constructions.

This is ceiling insulation. This one's… yeah sorry and similarly here in at wall insulation, we've seen the dominant kind of insulation value at the lower levels go down and increase at the higher R values. The orange there is insulation unknown which can represent SIPS panels and things like that where it's not an added R value. So what we can pick up in the certificate data is added R value. If the R value is integral to the product that's being used it will often show up as unknown insulation which is what that orange bar represents there.  So we've seen an increase in insulation values from six-star to seven-star.

We've seen very little change in double-glazing. What you're looking at there is the percentage of single-glazed to double-glazed and that's essentially gone from 0.5% to about 1.5% which I would call in the noise really. There's been very little measurable change in the amount of double-glazing going in Queensland and you don't have to understand these kind of windows or these orientation charts very much. All it's showing on those charts is that there is no real dominance of any particular orientation so dwellings are being oriented north, south, east, west in relatively equal proportions and that hasn't changed post seven-star regulations either.

So yeah, very little double-glazing use, higher percentage of class 2 do have double glazing which may be explained by sound proofing and other things and has increased marginally since the 2022 changes and orientation unchanged.

So that's the story as far as we can tell so far from the NatHERS data. There's been an increase in insulation. There's been very little change in double glazing. There's been no change in floor area so we're not seeing huge changes to building fabric have been necessary. There's a number of things the certificate doesn't show us. Configurations of rooms. Are people orienting living areas to the north more or to another particular orientation? Things like that don't show up in the certificates.

But the kind of course building fabric changes that we would expect to see… slightly smaller windows, slightly increased insulation are there. But we're not seeing some of the more expensive things like double-glazing starting to predominate or anything like that at this point in time.

All mistakes are mine, all credit for data visualizations and all further requests for data can go to Michael Ambrose at CSIRO who is the data guru who puts all of these things together for us, so thanks.

Paige, I hope I'm more or less on time.

Thanks very much Anthony for your overview of the Australian housing data portal. For those that know, that's all the certificate data that comes from the NatHERS scheme. So great to have Anthony here and if there are super technical questions perhaps Anthony can help me out.

All right, so NatHERS in a nutshell. It's a framework providing CSIRO-backed software tools and assessments. Provides a streamlined pathway to meet the National Construction Code energy efficiency requirements. Provides reliable energy performance assessments and ratings for new homes. It uses, it calculates how much heat is needed to be artificially added or removed to keep each room comfortably comfortable for every hour of the year.

Different options in NatHERS can be modelled and tested. For example, comparing various living room orientations in the home as well as window layouts. By doing this testing you can see which orientations and house designs will perform better.

Okay so the changes for National Construction Code 2022 as outlined by Gary. Thanks Gary. So we've now got the two changes. We've got the increase in the thermal rating and we've got the new whole of home energy use budget which is out of 0 to 100.

You'll see the NatHERS certificate there on the right-hand side. The logo at the top showing the thermal stars and the logo at the bottom which shows the whole of home rating which requires a minimum of 60 out of 100.

So the energy use budget now contains appliances fixed in the homes. So all your heating and cooling and your hot water systems, as well as cooking, lighting and pool and spa pumps. And for those that put on PV, you can include the PV and the batteries. It's important to note that as the thermal star rating is an input to the whole of home rating, the higher the thermal rating you have, increases your ability to get a good whole of home rating.

As part of the update to the NatHERS scheme, as part of NCC 2022, there was a review of the climate files. So the climate files were updated so all the data now includes climate weather input data up until 2015. As part of that collection and addition of data, there was also the re-star banding done for the NatHERS star bands. So this has actually meant that Brisbane has faired better.

So with the changes to NatHERS as part of NCC 2022, Brisbane gets a higher thermal rating, whereas some other locations like Sydney and Melbourne faired slightly worse. But overall there was zero change.

All right, just a bit of mythbusting. I've been with the NatHERS program for 3 years but I am aware that previous versions of the software were deemed not to be as suitable for the tropical climates that we find here in Queensland.

So it is true to say that the star bands in hot climates are, there are, allowances are made for a higher cooling load in Cairns than Brisbane, and the assumptions in the NatHERS tools also show that the thermostat settings are different for the air conditioning

So to stay cool and comfortable in Darwin, the setting is at 26.5 degrees, whereas in Hobart it's set to 23 degrees. The new software now recognizes the ceiling fans and the breezes which were previously underestimated and it's really important to note that the NatHERS assumptions set behind the tool talk about the windows being opened when there, when it's beneficial to do so, and the thermostat settings are modified if there is air movement available.

So if the windows are opened then you'll have that benefit through the NatHERS tools, whereas some of the other compliance pathways you won't have that.

Okay, so climate is key with whole of home whilst NatHERS whole of home is flexible. You can select the group of appliances whereas in some of the other compliance pathways it's not as flexible.

It's really important to get an energy assessor early, so to get the basics right and have a really solid thermal star rating first. And as I noted before with the solid thermal star rating, that benefit then flows through to your whole of home budget with the minimum being required of 60 out of 100.

It's noted also that in warmer climates you can benefit significantly by adding solar PV, because the appliances have an emphasis on cooling sunshine during the day, you can turn your air conditioning on in the tropical weather.

So just a bit about using NatHERS in Queensland. So passive solar design will have the greatest impact on a rating for the least cost. It's really important to orientate the rooms within the home, so ensuring the living areas have the best orientation.

So in the northern climates here in Queensland, that means protecting your living areas from the west-facing sun. So a good opportunity there is to place some of the rooms that you don't use as frequently, so your laundries, your bathrooms on the west face.

The other really important aspect is the glazing. The glazing that you can put in, the more ventilation that you can create, so the higher the opening of the window the better the rating will be in the NatHERS scheme. That means selecting a custom window from the expanded window

library in NatHERS will improve your thermal star rating.

Now currently the NatHERS tools most of them have included the WERSLink custom and default library windows. So you'll see those benefits in the thermal star ratings. Back to Anthony's point about seeing a little bit more concrete slab floor on ground. That connection to the ground is really important in terms of the breathability of the home in the summers. And as I mentioned before, the ventilation and air movement is critical also for the Queensland's warm climate.

So having the windows that are being able to be opened and not having solar heat gain coefficients being high in your glazing, these things really can make a big difference to thermal star rating. So now with the addition of whole of home, it's important to choose your appliances wisely. You do need to include your heating, cooling and hot water appliances, so the higher the efficiency, the higher the whole of home rating that you'll receive.

It's noted in Queensland however that for hot water, the solar hot water systems and heat pumps are performing more optimally with the high air ambience temperature here. Just wanted to touch on quickly. In the coming weeks, for those that know ‘YourHome’, it's your home guide for energy efficiency sustainable design. It's quite a hefty document but also available online, really easy to search as part of the house plan designs on the ‘YourHome’ website.

They are being updated for the NCC 2022. These are going to be available in the coming weeks. There are several home designs in there that are fit for purpose for Queensland, including the tropical design that you can see there, the two-story Telopea house.

So these are there to provide a guide. In many cases homeowners will, will see these guides and then sort of work with an architect to, to make changes. So if you'd like any more information about NatHERS and the the upcoming designs that will be available, please sign up to the NatHERS newsletter. So it's NatHERS, nathers.gov.au  And just to note that those designs do also include the assessable living.  So all the NCC 2022 requirements. Thanks.

So, the overview I'm going to talk about some of the elemental provisions and a few little tips on how to use them and how and why they're different. NatHERS tips for higher ratings will come out from the case studies. I've got additional slides that I put together. I've run a few CPD units on this for design matters, national and I've got some extra stuff that I'm not presenting but will be there in the copies of the slides if you want them.

I'll go through two case studies, five to six stars with an outdoor living area from two of the RIS houses in Brisbane and Toowoomba. If I had more than half an hour of course I'd do Cairns and I'd do Longreach and all the rest of them. And then I've just got a couple of slides on some practical outcomes from the whole of home.

You'll see in the, in the tables for insulation, that there are a number of and this shows - there's an X and that means that, that solution isn't available and deemed to satisfy. So you can either use NatHERS or change the properties of that building to something that doesn't have an X, or you can do another solution that allows trade-offs, like, like a reference building approach to keep us going.

One of the things that was in the back of my mind and unfortunately didn't actually make it into the NCC 2022, was in each climate zone, there are two wall types shown. One of them has no thermal mass. The other has heaps of thermal mass. And the idea was that the recommended wall R values could be assigned to any wall based on the thermal mass of the construction.

So if you've got concrete block walls for example in Cairns, concrete block on the inside, the R value that's recommended is a certain level. But if you had a brick cavity house, you could also use those same R values in the external walls.

If you've got a timber house, lightweight construction, then no internal walls have thermal mass, then you use the R values from the wall types that has no thermal mass. So, it wasn't meant to be - oh you can only have masonry veneer and masonry cavity in Mildura, it was meant to be - you've got two classes of walls, one where the external wall and all the internal walls have thermal mass, and another where they don't.

You'll see, insulating your subfloor walls is now a thing. The benefit is that it keeps that subfloor cooler in hot climates. It stops the heat gain or reduces the heat gain from the outside and as I like to say, where does the dog go in summer to keep cool? It goes under the house. It's nice and cool under there. So if you're making those subfloor, that subfloor cooler by reducing the heat gain through your subfloor walls, then that's going to get you a better outcome.

So, in the elemental provisions, it's now got requirements for subfloor wall insulation. Of course you've got to make sure that you don't obstruct your subfloor vents. And of course it has to be a moisture impermeable type of insulation.

So the next thing is well, I use an outdoor living area I get a one star credit and in the QDC that applies to climate zone 5 as well. So if I'm looking at six-stars, I should be using the old six-star glazing calculator. Maybe not, and let me show you what I mean.

We went through a couple of the houses and we looked at the glazing requirements at six-stars with the new calculator, and also at seven-stars. Yeah sorry, seven stars with the new calculator and six-stars with the old calculator. And in a number of the climates the new calculator, which correlates much better to the outcomes you get NatHERS than previous.

And no aspersions cast at ABCB for that because when the last calculator was being developed, second generation NatHERS tools were still being developed and there were no star bands. So it was very hard to calibrate that previous calculator back to NatHERS.

So you'll see in Brisbane unfortunately and in climate zone 5, there's not a, there's no large savings. But in all the other climate zones, check out the seven-star calculator to get compliant glazing with your elemental evaluations, rather than go back to that old six-star calculator.

The new calculator has got some new data inputs. If you don't put in those data inputs correctly it's going to be a lot harder in a lot of cases. So there's things like what type of room is it in? Is it a bedroom utility area or other like a living area? What sort of floor is it? Is it in direct contact with the ground? Is it an upper floor? Is it a timber floor?

What's the floor covering? Particularly on a slab. It doesn't affect timber floors at all. The colour of the frame and the open-ability of the windows. In fact the previous requirements in the elemental provisions about having openable, higher air of openable windows, did not give you anywhere near as much the benefit of higher open-ability that the new glazing calculator does, because it is tied back into, outcomes that you get from that NatHERS.

Now in the calculator itself, there's a little tab that says new features. I just recommend, read those thoroughly. So that's elemental a few tips on navigating through that.

Now I want to travel back in time and talk about a project I started in 2014, that was eventually published in 2017, that looked at how the Chenath engine, that's the thing that does all the calculations in NatHERS has worked, calculates performance in hot climates.

And so we looked at a range of houses, a couple of standard houses, and some archetypal, well-ventilated houses. And one of the things we looked at was, well for those standard type houses, what sort of energy or energy rating benefit do you get from implementing typical hot climate design strategies?

So we looked at louvre windows, tinted glass, lighter colours, deep verandahs, lightweight construction, elevated construction and ceiling fans. And you'll see in Townsville you get, if you replace all the sliding and awning windows with louvre windows, you picked up a star, in excess of a star. Tinted glazing point seven stars. Lighter colours compared to dark colours - two stars. A deep veranda all the way around the house rather than the dinky little 450 eave that we tend to put on. That's giving you a star and a half in Townsville.

Lightweight construction was worse, but that is compared to being on a slab and the temperature underneath that slab is much more benign, it's much more, it's much closer to the comfort temperature, that temperature of the ground. During the middle of the day if you're on a slab, you're losing heat to the ground. And that's a good thing if you want to minimize your actual energy use because the highest energy loads are in the middle of the day to late afternoon.

We looked at elevated compared to a slab on ground. Well we didn't make any other changes to these standard buildings, elevating them, but of course the typical Queenslander, which my wonderful partner Maryanne comes from Gladstone and lived in a Queenslander and I stayed up there several times. Yes you've got the louvre windows, you've got the lighter colours, you've got the deep verandah. But just raising it for a standard volume builder house, doesn't give you a benefit.

Ceiling fans 1.2 stars. Brisbane, much less benefit because you've also got some heating, but I'll tell you a little bit more later. Brisbane's got more cooling because of the new climate data than it used to have, which probably means it always had more cooling than NatHERS was assuming, because the new climate data is much more accurate these days.

Toowoomba benefits are not that big. It's a lot cooler. The other thing we looked at is does it simulate a sealed box. This has been a criticism of NatHERS for a while. And again another little table. This is showing the percentage of the time that windows were opened to provide comfort, compared to the amount of time that the aircon was on.

Now the Chenath engine tests every hour. If I open the windows, it predicts the air speed through all of the rooms of the house. It knows at certain air speeds, this is how much more comfortable it will feel. Those algorithms were designed by Steve Szokolay who I'm sure lots of you in Queensland have heard of.

And it says, okay if I can open the windows and keep cool I won't turn on the air-con. Now in a place like Townsville, even a standard house, was opening the windows to keep cool two-thirds of the time and only air conditioning 8%. Interestingly, the tropical house was opening the windows about the same amount of time, but it was actually only air conditioning 4.6% of the time.  So around half as often.

The trouble is, when the air isn't moving in a well-ventilated tropical design, then the loads for air conditioning are a bit higher. So even though, it was only air conditioning half as often because the lows were higher when it was air conditioning they get the same rating.

You'll see similar sorts of things in Brisbane. You know opening the the windows 45% of the time, air conditioning just 1% of the time. So lots of data in that you'll see, you can see that report on the NatHERS website and if you've got copies of the slides you can look that up on the NatHERS website. But it definitely doesn't simulate a seal box. Is it perfect? Probably not. But it isn't a sealed box.

So I'll present to you a couple of case studies and these were the houses that we used in the RIS, both on a timber floor, not an elevated timber floor, but just a timber floor. Both have an outdoor living area. And in the two most high volume construction climates of zones in Queensland. In Toowoomba NatHERS climate 50 Oakey and NCC climate 5 in Brisbane NatHERS climate 10 NCC climate 2. And I'll show you the sorts of changes that we had to make in order to go from 5 to 6.

Now you'll see that the changes you need to make don't cost you tens of thousands of dollars, probably only a few thousand dollars. So bear with government if you got something that's costing you 20 or 30 thousand, this is the information they're seeing. So they don't have evidence of this. This could mean two things. One is, well maybe you need to go back to scratch on that particular design.

Often when we were doing the consultation for NCC 2022 we had a lot of houses come in saying this is really expensive. Oh it was expensive for two reasons. One is way too much glass, and that's really going to kill you at seven stars. And the other was costed using one-off costs.

If you're a volume builder or even if you're a small builder, you can set up supply contracts and you can get things cheaper. So the initial cost that we saw from industry where they're having a problem, were not silly, but just it was thinking about things from the old six-star perspective and not the seven-star perspective where you've got to have a different mindset.

So, but before I do get into that, this little chart shows the change in the heating cooling proportion in all the different climate zones. Brisbane, you can see from that one. It's in this, oh I've got more cooling than I used to. Amberley and Oakey which is used for Toowoomba, I've got more heating than I used to.

So if you open up a house that used to get five stars with your outdoor living area and it doesn't get near five stars this time around, it could be because Queensland is unfortunately one of those states that have got some of the climate zones that have changed a fair bit. Now they better reflect reality than they used to, but you might find that the strategies you used to get to five stars are not what you need now to get to six stars with the new weather data.

So I'll just skip that for brevity. So the first house. I believe this is a Dennis Family Homes house. Thank you to them. They provided this house for the RIS and several other projects. As I said, we did north faces the street, backyard faces south, you've got east and west glazing and no overshadowing buildings on the east and west. And the front is facing north so any benefits you could get in winter, are all taken up by that garage taking up most of the facade.

I should add we did the whole thing in brick veneer. We didn't use lightweight cladding on the upper floor. So, in Brisbane, and you'll see here's some of these tables again that will be

familiar to people who've looked at the cost benefit evaluation. That report that I wrote for NCC 2022. Gary showed some examples from that, and again in the extra slides I've provided, there's links to that report.

That report shows the changes to every house on a slab and a timber floor in every climate. So have a look at that if you're struggling now. Find the house that's closest to the one that you're struggling with from that report and have a look at the properties of that. That might give you a head start.

Changes here are shown in blue highlight. So yes, as Anthony has found, a bit more ceiling insulation in Brisbane, bit more wall insulation. Insulated the subfloor. The ceiling fans we've moved. Still the same number of fans, but we're using wider fans. So we're looking at 1400 fans rather than 1200 fans. Reason being, firstly they provide a bit higher air speed, and secondly their effect is felt over a greater proportion of the room.

When it comes to the glazing at five stars, clear single glaze was fine. At six-stars you need some single low-E with a tint. Not the whole house. Always focus that high performance glazing if you're an assessor, on the rooms with the highest cooling loads. And, we also used on the upper floor, some louvre windows. Only 3.6 square metres. Yeah louvre windows are expensive, but it's one of the solutions to that openable window on a second floor having to have 1,700 fixed glazing.

Now you can get lots of windows where you can put all the open all bit above 1700. For this I thought well it's Queensland, I better pop some louvres in. And we reduced the total window area by about 5 square meters. Now the stuff in the portal shows what happens on average. This is down the worst end of things so this is a timber-floored house. It doesn't face the right way so we're trimming back the glazing a bit more in Brisbane.

Interestingly, when I put neighbours on, assuming a fairly dense subdivision, the rating improved by point three stars because there's a lot more cooling in Brisbane than there used to be. Ah and I didn't look at those elevated houses for this particular one. That's still something where yes there may be issues and I'm happy to talk to people afterwards about those and what sort of solutions there may be.

But in the RIS as I said we looked at these archetypal houses. One was based on a tropo design. One was based on a sort of passive solar design, but elevated. We found that with those houses, not only could you have way more glazing because they were well-oriented, but it was cheaper to comply than the volume houses.

Okay in Toowoomba a similar sort of story, increasing the R value of the ceiling and the walls, putting some sub-floor wall insulation in, using more and bigger diameter ceiling fans, a little bit of single low-E in Toowoomba but now more double glazing. At five stars with the new weather data, you would have had to have about half the glazing with single low-E.

Now you've got a little bit of single low-E and about half the glazing being double glazed. Again put the double glazing in the rooms that have got the highest heating loads. Don't bother whacking it in a bedroom, it probably doesn't have high heating loads. And we cut back the glass area again about four and a half square metres.

Another plan, thank you to the HIA for this one. They've been using this plan in the past to look at the impacts of regulations and it's got a little outdoor living area that we've added. It's got that minimum depth 2.5 metres open on two sides and if you really look hard it's got a ceiling fan as well.

Same sort of story in Brisbane, more ceiling insulation, using a lighter coloured roof. Colours always can help, but it's a design-by-design thing. So you know colours of roof, walls, window frame. Experiment with them. You might find with a particular house it's got a bit more heating than cooling in this particular climate, so a darker colour would work.

If it's got more cooling than heating, then lighter colours will work. Sometimes you know in places like Toowoomba, doesn't make much difference. In this case the lighter coloured roof did. Again more insulation the walls, some subfloor wall insulation, increasing the diameter of those fans and putting in some additional single low-E tinted glazing, trimming back the glass areas, using a slightly lighter frame colour.

When we put neighbours either side in this one, it actually reduced, this is what I'm trying to say here, but it didn't come out, actually reduced the rating in a place like Toowoomba. In a place like Brisbane, it increases the rating again not by as much though. Because this time I was assuming that you had a single-story house overshadowing the single-story house.

In Toowoomba, again more insulation, more fans, bigger fans, starting to use some double glazed low-E now. My tip with double glazing is, use the low-E argon filled. Don't bother with the bog standard double glazing. We did a whole lot of work to look at what was the best bang for buck once we had all the window costs in. And what we found was you'll need to use less double glazing if it's higher performance.

The other thing I think too is, there's a number of window manufacturers now providing windows with an inline reveal, so the timber reveal covers the metal frames. That I'm aware of and there may be more, A&L they've always had that. AWS and Southern Star. At least I know Southern Star were developing things like that I think they're available now. And they provide you with free extra, you know point two, point three stars.

So think about the windows you're using, when you're specifying your double glazing. An inline reveal double glazed window will typically have 25% less heat loss in winter. So, don't need to necessarily go to the really expensive and chunky thermally broken frames. There's absolutely a place for them, but if you're looking for the least cost, go for those inline reveals.

Couple of little things now just on the whole of home outcomes, I looked at in Brisbane, 150, 250 and a 400 square meter house with a three-star ducted reverse cycle and a five-star gas instantaneous hot water system and said well how much PV would you need? And as the house gets a bit bigger you need more, but they're still all under three. No one puts in less than three.

So if you have 3 kilowatts of PV, you can pretty much have any size, any efficiency of appliance that you like in Brisbane. If you have a pool, you generally have to add about an extra kilowatt. Again it's not till you get to 400 square meters that you're looking at going over three. But you can change your appliances. You can go to more efficient appliances. And as a general rule, a heat pump hot water system or a solar off-peak electric, will mean you don't need any PV.

You might need to have four-star air-conditioners as well, but you know if you put in the sort of maximum size that you have in most suburban locations of 6.5 kilowatts. Anything you like as far as appliances. and you will over comply. You'll be way over 60.

And finally, same sort of thing in Toowoomba. Similar sorts of PV requirements with the same combination of heating, cooling. Add a pool. Now you're adding about 1.3 kilowatts to get compliance. And pretty similar story. Yes you can avoid PV if you get efficient enough appliances and again heat pump or solar hot water system you can avoid it. What if your clients want PV anyway? It gives them a whole lot more flexibility in the appliances they choose. And that's where I'll leave it. Thank you.

Clyde Anderson: Hi my name is Clyde Anderson. I'm from the Building Designers Association of Australia and ABSA. We're now joined and a question to Anthony. In the Australian housing data portal, we use data for credited assessors and non-accredited assessors. And non-accredited assessors aren't as subject to quality assurance, so how do we know we can add those numbers and make them the same?

Anthony Wright: Good question. I don't. I have to treat them as equivalent because they look equivalent in our system. So, there's a broader question here around the move from pre-NCC 2022 to post-NCC 2022 and my experience with Western Australia five years ago might be kind of illuminating in this space which was, that when Western Australia looked at adopting the six star changes, they were operating in a very low level of NatHERS use. 20% I think was the case there as opposed to 50% in Queensland now. And I went over there and spoke to a whole lot of assessors who are having a lot of, sorry a whole lot of builders who are having a lot of trouble building to the six star standard. And when I really asked them a lot of questions about it, it turned out a lot of them were using unaccredited assessors and assessors who were using practices that were using the NatHERS software perhaps, but not using any of the NatHERS rules or protocols and were producing their own certificates. And the builders were being told they were getting a six star rating or whatever it was, but they weren't. They were getting something that was two, three, four stars perhaps. Then six star came in, rules changed, the assessors started using NatHERS more than they were before and suddenly these assessors were having to make a jump from something like three stars up to six stars which was a really big move all in one go. And so one of the things I'd encourage you to do is ask your assessor, are they NatHERS-accredited assessor? And make sure that what you're getting is a NatHERS-accredited certificate because then you are covered by all of the quality assurance procedures and protocols and I think kind of that's where you're getting to with your point. I can't guarantee that what's coming through is equivalent. We have done statistical looks at the data that comes through from accredited and unaccredited assessors and we can't find any statistical difference. So they're not, it's not like accredited assessors are delivering lower star ratings or higher star ratings or anything like that in comparison to unaccredited at a statistical level. But we have no way of interrogating the quality of the input data that goes into those ratings.

Clyde Anderson: Yeah and a follow-up question. Ah it's relating to using the Queensland data since 1st of May because we're in transition and most of those houses probably weren't aiming to get to the new standard because their design was dated prior to the 1st of May. If it's dated prior to the 1st of May, the drawing set has got a date that is earlier, we can use the earlier code so they may not be reflecting the current new requirements in those data.

Anthony Wright: Yeah look that is true. We can only work with the data we've got. Give me, the ratings are higher so we are comparing seven stars post NCC 2022 to six stars pre NCC 2022. You're right there's a whole range of different reasons that might not be a perfect comparison. Give me another year or two and I'll be able to give you much better data, but I've got what I've got at this point in time.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay another question? We've got one online correct?

Anastacia Tritchler: We do. And the question is from Chris Coughlan and it is, why is there not more focus on solar batteries?

Paige Ridgewell: Who'd like to take that?

Gary Rake: So I think the first thing to think about there is that's dealing with the energy generation and consumption side. And my accountability through building ministers and working in partnership with climate and energy ministers would remind us that, the cheapest unit of energy, regardless, is the one that we don't have to use and so making sure that the thermal performance helps reduce the need for appliances to balance out heating and cooling, which then reduces the amount that we draw from the solar or the battery, means that solar and battery contribution can go to other energy uses in the building. So it is still important that we try to deal with both not just focus solely on solar and batteries.

Tony Isaacs: And if you're using NatHERS tool, you can say you've got a battery, you can put in the number of kilowatt hours that it stores. So it's in there, there's just they're not part of a minimum regulation, but you do get credit for it if you've got it.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay next question up the front here please.

David Pemberton: Thank you my name is Dave Pemberton from QBEARS Energy Assessments. I actually have four questions I need to ask the chair. Do I ask all four or do I ask a time and.

Paige Ridgewell:  We might give you, we might give you a couple and then pass it off and then come back.

David Pemberton: Very good, so the first two, I guess my first comment is first off this is a really good forum and thank you to the government and everyone attending because it's good to see three out of the four key stakeholders, ABCB, State and NatHERS here. The fourth one that's missing is probably representatives from the software supply, but I guess we've got Tony from.

Tony Isaacs: Nicks over there.

David Pemberton: Oh we got Nick, very good. Thanks Nick. I guess my first comment is the implementation of this NCC 2022 for Queensland has been terrible. And I'm sure that other states have probably had frustration, but there's been many issues that's been raised in relation to the implementation, the roll out, and the integration of this stuff.  And my friend Lindsay Walker is fully aware of my conversation in relation of that. I guess at a very high level I'm asking, can the next time we do the changes either for NCC 2025 or 2028 through ABCB and the state government and NatHERS and the software, can we allow more lead time before the implementation and the cut off. Because I understand all four authorities have critical time frames and deliverables from a political or whatever, but at the end of the day this roll out of NCC 2022 is a major impact. To back that up, the information that I've heard so far today isn't lining up with what's happening at the coalface. A colleague of mine is, is saying that they have over 2,000 assessments currently sitting in front of them that will be deemed, that will be done under the old deemed to satisfy elemental with the old glazing calculator, which none of that data would be visible to anyone here today and potentially another thousand coming on. And some of their associates for Queensland have probably in the order of another 4 to 6,000 assessment that aren't visible so we're not seeing the real result of the impact of this NCC 2022. So that's my first comment. The second one and I'll limit.

Paige Ridgewell: Is there actually a question, because we take on board what you're saying but

that's not a question.

David Pemberton: Okay, so the question is, how are we going to ensure as we move forward from what we've done with this implementation to make sure that we don't have those sorts of, those sorts of repeat issues on implementation because there's so much information? So that's the first question. From the panel is what can we do to learn from that?  The other question is about in relation to the software which probably relates to NatHERS, and to Tony from CSIRO, is that the evidence that we are seeing, is that the old software version to the new software version is creating quite significant variances when you change parameters. If you like, we use FirstRate5, and when we use the old one prior to the first of May versus the other one, some scenarios improve, like 0.1 of a 0.2 of a star, and if we tweak the thing it actually goes backwards. My understanding again and that's with the same house moving it whether we change it from a parameter of a house that's up on stumps elevated versus one that slab on ground. And then at other times it actually goes the other way around. So there seems to be some anomalies in the software, which doesn't instil a lot of confidence with us as energy assessors who are trying to explain that to the client.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay can someone explain about the software?

Tony Isaacs: - Yep, ah in terms of the software, what we saw in very broad terms was, when things were re-star-banded, that passive solar, well-ventilated house, single story house, on a slab was generally improving. Timber floor and two story, was generally not getting, getting worse. They're only about 0.1, 0.2 stars either way at six stars, but it depends on the balance of heating and cooling in that particular house, So and like Melbourne where I do most of my rating work, the proportion of the total load that is heating, can be anywhere from 30% to 90%. So it depends on the design, the orientation and so forth. So that you're getting slightly different results, for you know, what seem to be the same house, ah I'm afraid the only answer is dig a bit deeper and it's probably okay. I don't think there's major issues with the software, it's just that the new climate data is giving you things that seem unintuitive right now, but the more you get into it, the more it'll make sense, because yeah, we started at that same point in 2019 with NCC 2022. As I said, we rated everything three times. So it takes a lot of digging into it. In terms of implementation issues and that sort of stuff, there have been ideas around, that maybe it would have been a good idea to have workshops. To get a builder or a designer to come along with their energy assessor with a project they have trouble with. And to get some experts in the room with them, get a half a dozen sets of design, sorry designers and assessors and work through it with them and then turn those into case studies. So that's.. it's really easy being smart in hindsight, but those sort of things I think are part of a better strategy and I also, it's hard for the building industry yeah it's NCC 2022 or 2024, but I know builders have got to make a buck, they've got to keep their subbies in work. It is really hard to look at what does this all mean? And so and if there was ever one that needed a bit of earlier thought, it's this change. So I think where we are now is in part, a business as usual response from the industry as well as from the others. Other stakeholders, and this was not your business as usual sort of change. But what's important is, what do we do now?

Paige Ridgewell: Okay we have some more questions and I know that you've got more questions that you want to ask but there are many hands up in the room so firstly if you can just pass to the lady next to you.

David Pemberton: I didn't get the second one answered, sorry.

Paige Ridgewell: I think we might have captured. Have we captured that or have we got further answer on the software?

Gary Rake: We’ll come back to that shortly.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay we'll come back to that.

Person on floor: Just be interested to hear how to pass demountable dwellings in Queensland. Finding great difficulties passing demountable homes. Any tips, thoughts?

Tony Isaacs: I mean we didn't look at that in the RIS. So, in the work that I did. Now ABCB might have done some more work on that. So, but I've not assessed any.

Person on floor: The practical application using NatHERS software is terrible. They're just not passing thermally and I'm hearing claims that they are passing so I'd just be interested to hear where these are coming from.

Gary Rake: Could I just check, do you know whether any redesign or changes occurred in the construction? So, if I jump to the pilot projects through the modern methods of construction, what we were hearing was that those modular homes were meeting livable and seven star and were getting sort of positive user reaction. People were coming in and saying, oh wow that the slightly wider corridor here makes this feel more like a traditional home. So I would just ask, do you know whether they've done redesign of those demountables or transportables?

Person on floor: No they're not, they're not redesigned. They're just standard demountable homes.

Gary Rake: - So yeah, but.

Person on floor: The modern methods of construction. I'd like that information to be provided more broadly. How these have been constructed, because the website doesn't seem to have that information. So it'd be great to have that.

Gary Rake: Be great to throw that one on the parking lot please Lindsay.

Paige Ridgewell: Lindsay, if we can pass, ah pop that one on there thank you, thank you. Okay next question there's another one online.

Anastasia Tritchler:  And this one is related to apartment buildings and Melissa Chandler has asked if the panel could advise of any observations of climate data and any changes observed of construction methodology or use of elements such as ceiling fans, appliances etcetera.

Anthony Wright:  I wouldn't expect to see a lot of information on class 2 yet. It's just too early in the process. Class 2 buildings have a much longer lead time to design and push through the permitting process and then to get to construction. So I wouldn't really trust a lot of the data that we've got is according to the new standards at this point in time sorry.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay.

Tony Isaacs: If I could add just one more thing. Have a look at that cost benefit evaluation of the building fabric. Yes we got all the houses in there, but we've got also all the changes that were made to the apartments, the 24 unit apartment building. It's aggregated you know, not by apartment, but by the whole building. So you'll see a number of the changes there, but I mean we didn't change construction designs. We absolutely use ceiling fans and there are issues depending on the ceiling height as to how practical it is to put in those ceiling fans. But my first port of call would be that report and just see what we did to go from average six to average seven.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay we've got another question over here.

Russell Hall: Russell from the Queensland chapter of The Institute of Architects. I'm not going to write my clients a letter saying sorry for designing zero star houses over quite a lengthy career. I was intrigued to hear the variation in the ventilation from Tony and North Queensland down to other houses. My question is related to the ventilation in the NCC. The NCC says you can have 5% ventilation for every climate zone in Australia. I view this is totally idiotic. It then goes on to say that the area of the ventilation is calculated as the window sash. I chased up the ABCB years ago and asking what did that mean? And was told you can open it 1millimetre and comply. So why should anybody have any faith in the NCC if such idiotic idiot things are allowed to be incorporated in it. And also the Queensland government since it can override the NCC why doesn't it do so as far as ventilation? I'm saying there should be much more ventilation in North Queensland above 5%, to in the bottom of Tasmania. When are you going to implement some sensible policies?

Paige Ridgewell: Okay well we potentially the ventilation part of that question we would fall within the parameters.

Gary Rake: That's right. Most of what you're talking about there does relate to the part of the code that deals with indoor air quality. That's where the requirements for ventilation come into play. Look it is, it is a vexed one. It has a simple minimum necessary regulatory approach. That doesn't mean you should only do that, and there is a complexity that flows with relying on openable windows. That only works if people open their windows. So if I just draw a contrast to seat belts in cars. We require cars have seat belts. We also require you to wear your seat belt and we check you're wearing your seat belt and we fine you if you're not. With openable windows, we don't go around and check that people are actually opening their windows, nor do we propose to fine people for not opening their windows. So there is an element of us setting a minimum necessary regulation that enables good practice, but we can't force it there and that one is around air quality more than ventilation. I accept you'd like to see more. I encourage you to design better into your property or into your client's properties, but this is a minimum necessary regulation.

Tony Isaacs: In the glazing calculator, you put in the openable area of the windows. If every window in that building is only 5%, you are going to have a really tough time getting that glazing calculator to work. If on the other hand, you've got a house that's got louvre windows all the way around which are fully openable, it's going to be a lot easier to pass that glazing calculator. So as a minimum standard, what Gary says about, yeah it's 5%, that's what it is. It's a vexed question, but in practice I think greater ventilation is encouraged because you get a better result if you got more openable windows.

Paige Ridgewell: Right thank you, our next question, will go here and then up the back.

John Moynihan: John Moynihan, Ecolateral. The question I have is about your point about the louvres. When we're looking at getting a house as efficient as we can, particularly in its heating and cooling loads, louvres leak, open or closed. So the propensity to put more louvres in, effectively counteracts what you're trying to achieve. So is there thoughts about getting some sort of balance into the percentage of louvres within a house?

Tony Isaacs: When you do NatHERS ratings you will presume that when those louvers shut, they shut tightly. And my understanding is the breeze way carrier for louvre windows do shut tightly. That's not the only carrier out there, so there is also the ability to say well I've got a larger gap size, because of those louvers and you can evaluate that in NatHERS software. You can say it's small, medium, large and not weather stripped. You've got to go out of rating mode to do it.

John Moynihan: Yeah.

Tony Isaacs: But you can certainly look at that and evaluate that and let your clients know. Well these ones that do shut tightly, they'll give you this performance these ones that don't shut tightly they'll give you this performance. So, it's not a regulatory solution to that but you can certainly see the impact.

John Moynihan: So I guess when air pressure testing houses becomes regulatory, it'll show?

Tony Isaacs: Yeah well that will certainly expose those, yeah.

John Moynihan: Thank you.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay and then there's a lady up the back.

Diane Johnson: Thank you. Diane Johnson from Master Builders. Also like to echo thank you very much for this session and agree that it's a great lesson learned for future NCCs having practical, how-to apply regulations is a really good lesson to learn for future. But my question for Craig. Hi Craig. All the talk today has been about individual houses and how we're actually going to develop, deliver this in individual houses and make changes in individual houses. But I expect the department in your portfolio public housing is facing similar problems or similar challenges that our volume builders are dealing with in how you deal with this across a whole program or a whole you can't individually design each dwelling. Have you got some solutions or some ideas on how we might be able to work to feedback to the volume builders and how we can do this across a range of houses that aren't individually designed for each site?

Craig Ingram: No immediate answers there perhaps. But perhaps our experience they will help. Sure we saw the seven star thing coming in the apartment space and that's what most of social housing these days is apartments, so that's where all my energy is spent. And like many design practices, so I manage client-side designers. We scope the projects. We work the projects through to about a DA level and then they move over into a tender space and they get built. And all those bits of paperwork that include the NatHERS certificate, because that's how we regarded the NatHERS certificate was a piece of paperwork, get done later. We didn't even get to look at it. That's how, that's how important we felt it was, and in the apartment space you know we're coming from a low base, so we felt the hard work was done by us up front putting a roof on it, putting eaves on the roof, looking at the orientation, shading the windows. They're all the things that we did to improve the thermal performance of the apartments and then the certificate would get printed later. So seeing the seven star thing coming on board, we decided to have a look at how this would impact us, and we pulled out 400 dwellings that we'd already done and we noted that 80% of them already hit the seven star mark. So even with that lazy approach that we took, we were already right on that seven star, seven star mark and we then we looked at the projects overall to see how they were complying and it was, it was one, two, or three apartments, with any apartment project that was under, right, not meeting that minimum and really dragging the, dragging the average down. So we had a look at those. The interesting thing for us, we're all design experts and we knew orientation, we knew breezes, we knew all these things, but in seeing four stars written on an apartment, on a plan right in front of you, made you analyze it again and use all the things that we knew as designers and go oh my god yes, this is in Brisbane a cold apartment to live in. There will be a heating load. We didn't even think of heating loads. It's all about, it's all about cooling loads here in Brisbane. No but this will be an uncomfortable apartment. So we felt great shame at that, the fact that we were building these social housing things that were not coming up to up to pass. So we implemented a process where early in the design stage we would we would get certifier advice, like all the advice was leading up to the implementation of the seven stars. Get advice early and redesign your practices. Have another look at what you're doing. The interesting thing for us is we've written 55 design briefs asking for early certifier, to early energy assessor advice. We've received it on seven projects. It just confuses the industry. What do you mean early advice? You're not yet complete enough in your design for us to pump out the certificate. Because and this is going to be the impact on Queensland, we're just not geared up just yet, to provide that early advice that we need to get out to redesign our standard, our standard house designs our standard unit designs and get them right. And I think Diane that's all I can say is we do need to go back to the drawing board a little bit, look at what our, what we've been doing for so long in the apartment space because it is the low base. It's imperative on us to do it, in the houses, maybe less so, but yeah there will be some changes required to our standard practices.

Anthony Wright: My experience is mainly in Victoria, that's where I'm based. And this is anecdata as well but it speaks to kind of the point you made and the point Tony made earlier about having to reconsider things. And the big project home builders that were planning well in advance of all of this have been doing a lot of work trying to get their standard portfolio of homes up to the new standard. What I'm hearing is that the biggest change they're having to make, is in their sales pipeline. Which houses can go on which blocks. And they can, and starting to think about just excluding certain houses from certain areas and certain climate zones and certain orientations. And that is a sales funnel issue for them. So you know their customers typically come to them via the website. They know how big their block is. They know they want a four bedroom house and they go out four bedroom houses on a block of 15 metre width or whatever it is, and they get presented with a whole range of options. They may need a few extra parameters on that sales funnel now that excludes a couple of designs. We're used to excluding designs that don't fit on the block because they're too wide or they're too long or something like that. We're not used to excluding ones that you know the garage is on the north side and there's not enough solar access to that house in Melbourne. And so they're trying to figure out how to make that sales funnel work and provide a good customer experience and deliver a product they know that they can make comply on that site. So I think that's a different set of changes to just changing your building fabric.

Paige Ridgewell: We have another online question and then can I just get, I know we've got one over there, and I know you have more that we will come back to. Ana.

Anastasia Tritchler: And I'm conscious that there's quite a few coming through online, so I don't anticipate in the 10 minutes we'll get through them all. So I'm going to ask a couple in the order they've come in if that's okay. So the next one is from Natasha Prasek, and she has asked how critical is implementing thermal breaks and improving air tightness to achieving seven stars?

Tony Isaacs: Well, obviously if you've got metal frames, then you need to do extra now. And the idea is to get it up to the level of what a timber house would be. If you're looking at passive house, they go to extraordinary lengths. Ah, to think about the junctions of two different walls and making sure that junction is properly insulated as well. Now that isn't part of the minimum standard, but it is extraordinarily good practice. So, thermal breaks I know there's been a lot of discussion about if you've got a metal frame and you've been putting in thermal bridging mitigation, does that provide a solution to that as well? And I think in some cases it does and in some cases it may not. It depends on what the intent of the regulation is. But certainly, thermal breaks, thermal bridging, is a big part of it now, but only if you've got metal frames. Then the next step, the passive house type step, hasn't been done through minimum regulation.

Anastasia Tritchler: Thank you. We have another question which I believe has been answered earlier in the discussions around when you mentioned the working groups and the workshops that you've discussed in regard to the hindsight of implementation. It's from Linda Rosengreen of Master Builders, and effectively she is asking if any builders other than those constructing green homes were included in the consultation period in regards to the practicality of implementing the changes. And mentions that, they're seeing some costs being reported that are higher than we would expect.

Gary Rake: Yes there were a lot of organisations including builders, large and small, that were directly involved in the consultation. I actually had to face a question like this from one of the prominent New South Wales media personalities, some might call them shock jocks, who were claiming that there'd been no consultation and I offered to speak to that radio personality, with their sponsors and to talk about the submission that we had actually received from the sponsors. And the meeting that we'd had with them to help understand where there were differences in perspective. So not to be cheeky about it if, when we were consulting, if people came to us and said we think your costings are wrong, we would reach out and try to understand what are the differences in the assumptions? Are we talking about first, are we talking about the same of house? If we were modelling a 200 square metre house and they were modelling a 400 square metre house, clearly we were going to get different answers. But if we reconciled those, we could then work out whether our approach was right. Maybe coming back to also touch on David's question about how would we do this differently next time? The first thing I'd say is when these provisions were developed, the questions that ministers asked us to take out were, should we make this change, and if so how? And so a lot of the feedback that we got in consultation was, don't make the change. There wasn't so much emphasis on the how. If I were offering advice to ministers today on you know what might we do if we have had to do this again? It would be give us a clear policy outcome that you're after early, and then let us go out and talk to industry about the best way to achieve that. And so this exercise today is a terrific example of trying to share information to implement these rules in a really effective way. If we did something like this earlier and said we've got to achieve 20% reduction in energy use, or we've got to get to seven star, or we've got to get to net zero whatever the answer might be, and asked for your feedback on the least disruptive ways to get there, I think that would be really useful. But what I need to ask then is that in coming into that room, accept that the policy decision has been made and help us then think about how we would implement it with the most efficient path and the least pain and the best benefit. Which is kind of what you're doing today for the decisions that have already been taken.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay thank you. We'll go over here, I know we've got a question here this gentleman here's got a question. And then we'll go back to you David, and then if there's another one online.

Michael Tyrrell: Hi I'm Michael from Building Approvals and Advice. Just a question about the modelling. Right at the beginning we talked about 10 houses across different climate zones, which is great. How many extension alterations did we in included in any of that data, or was it all brand new homes?

Paige Ridgewell: So the answer was all brand new.

Gary Rake: Yep.

Paige Ridgewell: Well we're here.

Person from floor: I've got two, the first ones really quick. With the two different wall types the thermal mass and lightweight, is there any direction that we can rely on that yes we can see cavity brick and use concrete block?

Tony Isaacs:  I don't think it made it through to the final regulation, so it's not in NCC 2022, and you know, probably my fault. So sorry, but that was the intention at the time. I should also add had it not been for covid, we'd still be waiting for these regulations because I had nothing else to do. So, but working 60, 70 hour weeks for months and months and months, that was just one that slipped off. I have spoken to some of Gary's staff about it. I think watch this space would be the.

Gary Rake: I'm going to give you a blank look answer.

Tony Isaacs: Yeah, yeah.

Person from floor: It just leaves us as assessors doing deemed to satisfy assessments just, are we doing the right thing?

Tony Isaacs: Yeah because what you need is that this is kosher, this is fair dinkum I can.

Person from floor: Yeah

Tony Isaacs: do this and this is why I've done it, yep.

Person from floor: Second question. I'm aware that there's some issues with the NCC 2022 glazing calculator. I know you are too. Again I'm looking for clarity because the position I'm in, I need to know is it okay to use, can it be deemed okay if I know that it's not okay or you know, where's the.

Tony Isaacs: Yep, yep.

Person from floor: certainty for us there?

Tony Isaacs: Next week.

Person from floor: Oh fantastic Tony that's great

Tony Isaacs: I'm halfway through the questions. Some of the things that you're questioning. They were just not documented. That was, it's in the calculator and it's right, but things like the floor covering of a utility room which is not heated and cooled, you don't need to worry about what it is, it won't affect things at all for example. So I'm working through that at the moment. Had I not slipped over in the bath two weeks ago and hurt my shoulder, which is a very old person thing to do, it would have been finished already. I'd hope to actually have all the answers when I come up here, but I'm halfway through. Sarah from ABCB has got me on it and you'll get answers soon.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay now we'll come back over here.

David Pemberton: Thank you. My third question Annalise mentioned earlier on about the four key areas. That's information coming about raised on stumps, double story homes, removal homes and renovations additions and alterations. This matter has been raised with the state for about 12, 18 months, when the draft NCC 2022 came out. Are you able to give us a definitive position on when that is going to be consulted? Last week NatHERS came out and did the forums on rolling out the implementation on assessing existing homes under a magic plan and other things like that so we're doing this coming out and rolling out this end spectrum of assessing existing homes. Clearly understand we've got this big change on the new homes, but one of the big things is those four areas particularly additions and alterations, is a gap, significant gap and people have been screaming out for this and unfortunately there's too many people saying go and consult your certifier or whatever. We just seem to be in no man's land, and I guess is there a definitive position from the state that what we're going to do in relation to those four key areas and if so when please?

Paige Ridgewell: Okay, is that something we can answer now or is it something that we need to? Thanks Lindsay.

Lindsay Walker: So that's a parking lot issue, in the terms of that we're aware of the issue. David's right, we have been thinking about it and we will get to it, but it's one that we don't have an answer for today. And it's also a significant policy outcome that we would potentially need to address to that. So absolutely aware of the issue that's what we're doing here now I'm taking notes on stuff and that's one of the ones we'll be addressing as soon as we can.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay and David you have one more, yes?

David Pemberton: No thank you I'll leave for the others.

Paige Ridgewell: Right okay thank you and I I will take one more question from online thanks.

Anastasia Tritchler: Thank you, and this one is from Jeremy Turner of AIBS, and he has advised, what are the views of the panel on the standard of construction conformity that is being achieved and the need or otherwise for mandatory inspections around energy efficiency compliance?

Tony Isaacs: - I know you'd probably like to answer this one Gary, but can I take a quick first one? There was a project in Victoria done where they evaluated 2,000 houses and they checked all of the energy efficiency stuff. They use thermographic imaging cameras. They check the little labels on all the windows. And in general terms, there's actually much better compliance than they thought. I think about 15% were a bit under, and actually 15% of so we're a bit over. So it's been a worry of mine for decades that we're not getting the houses that we ought to be getting because people are cutting corners. But at least in that Victorian study it seemed to not be as big an issue as we thought.

Paige Ridgewell: Right.

Craig Ingram: Yeah and I'll add, I think the underlying thing here, are we getting what we think we're getting? That comes through, you know when you talk about does the modelling model ventilation? At the core of that, is the performance of the dwelling actually what we think we're going to get? And yeah so all of us wonder that. I mean we're doing a little bit of research with UQ to have a look at you know putting temperature sensors into buildings and seeing how well do they correlate with what we thought we were going to get. Some interesting things there if you throw in CO2 sensors in terms of people who may have concerns about multi-residential living about neighbours, about noise, about road noise and the behavior they might have around opening and closing windows. So all of the things that we do, all the houses that we build, are going to be lived in by people and they're going to use those you know they're going to have particular ways, ways that they use them I suppose. And for us, you know we're serious when we say that when we, when we've saw that we were delivering things that weren't up to a standard, it was really important to us to fix that because we know if we make that house more comfortable, people are going to be less likely to heat it or to cool. It's going to save them money and it's going to make their lives better as a result of it.

Anthony Wright: Also add one other thing that we looked at air tightness just recently. There's a paper just put out about a week and a half ago looking at the air tightness of houses built in the last three years. All up the east coast. And the level to which the built outcome matches both the NatHERS assumptions for those houses and the NCC assumption of around 10 air changes per hour it was extraordinary. I expected it to be far more diverse out there and certainly when we did this 13 or 14 years ago, was much more diverse, but houses built in the last 3 years look like they are being built almost exactly as we expect them to be built by and large. And yeah, I've seen the same study Tony's talking about in Victoria too. God I wish they would publish it. If someone wants to talk to me about FOIing it, come and talk to me later. I'm not sure I'm allowed to do it. But the results would be awesome to see.

Alright, so this morning I'm talking about the Livable Housing Design Standard and also the Queensland Development Code MP 4.5 which adds and amends that.

So, alright, so we'll start with what is required under the NCC. The NCC 2022 Livable Housing Design Standard addresses the need for new homes to be able to adapt with the community's changing needs, as the residents transition through life stages.

The NCC 2022 changes will increase the stock of accessible housing, supporting Australians with disability, older Australians, their families and carers.

It's important to note that the Livable Housing Design Standard, only applies to Class 1a and 2 dwellings, so your average detached house and residential apartments. The Livable Housing Design Standards for Class 2 buildings is Part G7 of Volume 1 of the NCC 2022, while Class 1a provisions are Part H8 of Volume 2 of the NCC 2022 and those sections are quoted in that gray box there.

Queensland has added detail or amended some aspects of the Livable Housing Design Standard through the Queensland Development Code MP 4.5 Livable dwellings and grading to floor waste.

The livable housing design changes took effect from 1 October 2023, with some transitional provisions applying until the 31 March next year. The changes to new dwellings include at least one step-free entry into the dwelling, with more than one option for how to achieve this, slightly wider internal doors and corridors, one step free access into a bathroom and shower, a toilet with enough clear space in front to allow access for people with mobility issues and reinforced bathroom and toilet walls to allow handrails to be installed in the future.

Ultimately, the Livable Housing Design Standards make it possible for new homes to include cost effective accessibility features and save the costs associated with expensive and lengthy retrofits. These changes are small in the scheme of things, but make a big difference to people's lives now and into the future.

So, we have exemptions which apply, as the standard does not apply to all dwellings. Sensible commonsense exemptions have been adopted in the NCC 2022 to the step-free entry requirements. This includes instances where compliance step free and access cannot be provided, such as on steep lots, high set homes, including the iconic high set Queenslander.

In Queensland, we've worked closely with key stakeholders to develop more exemptions through the Queensland Development Code 4.5. This includes a time limited exemption for narrow lots, for example a frontage of 12.5 metres or less in width and small Class 1 dwellings, for example 55 square metres or less in size, for 18 months ending on the 31 March 2025. So that's to give people time to adapt to these changes.

So, the Queensland specific acceptable solutions. The QDC consolidates Queensland’s specific building standards into a single document, covering matters which are outside the scope of and in addition to, the Building Code of Australia. The QDC mandatory parts MP 4.5, deals with livable dwellings and grading to floor wastes. Workable and practical compliance options have been developed in consultation with peak industry bodies.

So, if there is no habitable room on the ground or entry level of the Class 1a building, a compliant sanitary compartment can be located on either the ground or entry level, or the lowest level of the Class 1a building with a habitable room. So, for example, if a townhouse style dwelling only has a garage, laundry and stairway to the upper floor on the ground level, the compliant toilet can be provided on the level above.

Repair and maintenance are not required to comply with the Livable Housing Design Standard where the part of the Class 1a building or sole occupancy unit being repaired and maintained, does not comply with the Livable Housing Design Standard prior to the repair or maintenance taking place.

So, where renovations do not impact a particular area, the new Livable Housing Design Standard may be exempt. For example, when renovating a bathroom, if the sheeting on the wall is not being removed and the framing is not exposed, additional reinforcing will not be required to be provided for that particular area. So, that's our way of trying to help people adapt to these new requirements and not to be unreasonable in terms of expecting those to be complied with if you're not exposing the wall framing.

All right, so some more sections of the MP 4.5. So, to do with renovations again, where renovations do not impact, oh no I think I've already read that. Oh no, here we go. So, one of the examples is when renovating a bathroom, if the sheeting to the new shower or toilet wall is not being removed and the framing is not exposed, additional compliant reinforcing is not required for that particular area, or if the size of the sanitary compartment, the toilet or bathroom, is not being increased in the renovations, that's the sanitary compartment being the room that contains the toilet, you are not required to provide the compliant 1.2 metres clearance in front of the toilet pan, clear of any door swing.

The QDC MP 4.5 also has acceptable solutions for grading of floors to voluntary floor wastes and step-free showers, under the Livable Housing Design Standard. So, the BCA requires internal wet areas to be constructed in a way that protects people, the building and other property, from the adverse effects of water escaping from wet areas into the rest of the dwelling or into a dwelling below.

So, to assist with providing the step-free entry into the bathroom, without having to provide a step down in the floor structure to achieve those falls that you need to the floor waste, which was a big issue that was identified during our consultation with private industry. So, one of the concessions here is at the entrance to the wet area, so there's ways you can achieve with assisting that step-free entry to the bathroom. So, either the entrance to the wet area has a linear drain that extends across the full width of the doorway, or the entrance to the wet area incorporates a raised area floor called a weir that is a minimum 10mm above the floor waste in the bathroom, or all vessels such as the basin or bath and all toilets in the wet area, are provided with built-in overflow protection and flexible hose assemblies which are used for the connection of fixtures contained in the wet area, are fitted with flood stop safety valves.

So, I mean I've heard in my experience of those flexible hose assemblies, if they're a cheap one from overseas perhaps, that over time they fail and your house gets flooded and the ceiling below falls on your kid's bedroom. So, in one of the examples I heard of. So, this is what we're trying to protect against here. If all vessels and fixtures comply with those three options, one of those three options, the floor does not have to be graded to the floor waste and each if each entrance to the wet area has a linear drain or a complying weir, the floor does not have to be graded. So, you don't need to increase those step downs in either the slab or the suspended floor framing to achieve those falls to a waste. So, you can see that diagram there that's one of the ones from the, at the bottom, is one of the ones from the QDC showing there's a non-graded area at the back of the room, but it's protected from overflow getting out the doorway by a graded area where the WC is.

So, there's a series of documents which can help people understand how these are implemented and give you examples and case studies. So, the ABCB's liable housing design handbook, which is available on the ABCB website, goes into more detail about each of the requirements in the livable housing standard and gives you practical details and examples of how to achieve those. Including alternative bathroom layouts like the one in the bottom righthand corner of the slide. So, it just shows you how you can overlap those required sort of circulation zones like the one in front of the toilet, with the space in front of the shower and where the doors might be located in that room. So, this helps people understand what their options are in terms of planning.

In a Queensland context, this includes, so the handbook also includes options for weatherproofing of step-free thresholds for different climate zones and examples of compliant seal profiles and information on rainwater management. Which was also, has also been you know in my experience with social housing and we've been doing step-free thresholds for 20 something years to our apartments, that is an issue which has occurred, you know exclusion of wind driven rain and that was also an issue that was identified by the private sector in our consultation before the livable housing became law.

So, the Queensland Government’s Modern Homes website also contains handy links to relevant support documents, including QBuild's step-free entry requirements guidance report which I prepared. This report is partnered with multiple case studies on a variety of site widths and setbacks using different house types, based on common project home designs and I just want to put in a little caveat here, that report dates from 2021 and was based on the draft NCC livable housing provisions. But I think it's still, a lot of it is still relevant and demonstrates the variety of ways that the step-free access requirements can be provided. As I said with a whole variety of different case study house types and site widths and setbacks and it also includes a case study typical project home three bed house plan, which I drew up, which is NCC compliant on a 260 square metre lot, with two options for step free entry. So, it is possible, it it's not as scary as it might seem and it often just requires a little bit of imagination with some sites. Admittedly yes, it's it is challenging on those smaller sites, but it is doable.

So, for professional advice on how the livable housing provisions apply to the design of new dwellings, obviously consult with your building certifier, building designer or architect, access consultant or occupational therapist. We're here to help people understand how to make this happen, in a cost-effective way and so are those people that I've just listed there. So, yes that's we're we're here to help is the message that I'm trying to get out here.

Alright, thanks everyone.

Congratulations on all of you attending today, it's a terrific cross-section of people and in fact I feel like I am with my people here today. So, um it's been a really good session from my perspective this morning. So, hopefully there'll be something in what I have to say about this secondary dwelling that is beneficial to some of you as well.

I'm going to share this real example of a building design experience with you, it's a fairly modest secondary, there are a couple of constraints. We had a client, and the client has a very tight budget. So, we're trying to get outcomes to suit the client, but also a compliant home. And where we've landed at with a lot of consideration is, probably not the best design outcome. But, we believe it's compliant with the relevant regulations and that said, I would certainly welcome feedback or opportunity through the question time to do things better and can I also acknowledge you for your help yesterday Lisa. Last minute call out to Lisa who was good enough to go through some of the questions I had and respond. So, she meant it when she said she's there to help.

So, the side is 600 square metres and it has a fairly even fall of 3 metres from front to back, 9.25% fall from the rear of the site to the kerb. There is an existing house, which is 99 square metres right at the back of the block and it too has a carport and it's about 40 or 50 years old. Initially, the client sought to have a dual occupancy unit, which was 89 square metres, plus carport that we designed and while an application was prepared and lodged with local government, we subsequently withdrew that application. And the reason for that was, a secondary dwelling and a dual occupancy, although both Class 1, in building terms, they assessed differently in most local government from a planning scheme perspective and the client chose to withdraw his proposal because of, because the council asked for a stormwater catchment plan being prepared and implemented to address the inherent overland flow path from the land higher up. It's on the North face of Mount Coolum. So, the run through that property is quite extensive at times.

So, a secondary dwelling didn't trigger the same concerns from a council assessment perspective, but certainly from a builder and a building designer’s perspective, it was very much on my radar. You might have noticed in the original cover shot that we did have a ramped entry and that was how we intended for occupants of that secondary dwelling to access the patio and then the home. But unfortunately, the rise up from the street was too steep to get to the base of that ramp, so we really targeted the carport from then onward as as a better option for access.

There were some waterproofing concerns that I had about the large deck at the front and you'll see that in this design here. We started with that initial concept on the left and then that's not the final design on the right, but it's part of the design development that we undertook. You see that bottom of the patio there, the bottom of the patio shows that ramp and the flat area coming off the driveway. So that was abandoned and we thought we'll go up through the driveway, park in the carport. We're able to make it the regulation width to get the clearance necessary and then we were looking at the levels between the patio and the carport.

Now a step-free threshold normally works well with about a 35mm transition. Had great concerns about the carport and the patio being anything like that in relation to the internal floor space. With water coming in from the back over the rear sites, we have a retainment wall at the back of this home and whilst we have drainage that is been designed to pick up the water and direct it away from the back of the site. I still had concerns about storm events in Queensland, South-East Queensland, and also just the fact that the occupants of the home will use that carport as normal people do and they want to hose it out and wash cars and do things like that you and I wouldn't do knowing that the floor is virtually level within inside. So, it's to prevent those unintended consequences.

The two design aspects that I really want to elaborate in this presentation are the step-free access to the home and also the bathroom design, although we have had a good look at that already. The patio has a roof right over it, but only a 600 eave and similar the carport and the house itself. So that 600 eave certainly wasn't going to give us much protection with storm or wind driven rain, apart from the overland flow. If I look at the ABCB housing provisions section 3.3.3 on surface water, surface water must be directed away from a Class 1 building and in this section of the standard, there are for slab on ground situations minimum set downs nominated, in association with additional falls away from the building. For example, 50mm to an outdoor slab set down, such as our patio or carport, but then the lower surface must also slope away for about 25 or 30mm over that first metre, depending on the rainfall of the area that the buildings constructed. Alternatively, 150mm set down from the internal finish floor level, to the concrete slab outside, is deemed compliant and as a builder, I'm very comfortable with that 150mm set down. So, section 3.3.3 also it states there doesn't apply to the landing area provided for the purposes of the ABCB standard for livable housing design, except for the channel drain.

There's also other considerations that we look at when we're designing a home, because we're not looking solely at these requirements for livable housing, we're looking at all aspects of the regulations. So, there's local government planning requirements also state the height of the overflow relief gully relevant to the drainage fittings, which is typically 150mm below the lowest sanitary fittings, but this regulation didn't affect our consideration in this particular example.

As I mentioned, the site is affected by the overland stormwater runoff and the finished floor level has been cut into the existing slope of the land. The retainment wall is about a metre high across the southern or rear of the building, so we've set that rear path down 175mm. So effectively it's like a wide spoon drain at the back of the building and directed with pits to the outside edges of the building. So, at this point we were trying to investigate how we could get in from that carport, to the living area and we moved the back door that had been out to the clothesline at the rear of the kitchen there, out to the side of the carport and we put in a recess door and subsequently the drain. But when we looked at it, the drain would have to go the full length of the living room in that carport, because with the 600 eave at the rear of the living room there, that's the only protection we had for that rear corner of the carport. So, and we still had a set down to the covered patio, so ideally, I wanted the carport and the outdoor area to all be the same level.

That's the detail Lisa kindly provided yesterday showing that typical threshold with the drain and I think that that would work quite neatly in an entry porch situation. If we were to apply that in my carport situation, that drain as I say would have had to have gone the full length. Just the other considerations I have with the set downs is and the reason for that Hardies detail there is, looking at termite design considerations in accordance with the standard and the minimum clearance that we like to see of 75mm. There are lots of ways of treating termite protection to the home, including using framing that is treated. But there's a 25-year limit on the treated framing and we are obliged to protect the home for 50 years as I understand it. Then there's also retic systems and monolithic slabs. So, I mean all these considerations come into designing the home and trying to balance out these new requirements.

So just moving to the bathroom and as say Lisa's covered that pretty well, we wanted a big wide shower, and our first option was the one there that's marked non-compliant. It was non-compliant because we had a level area in front of the door that fell to the waste, and it was pointed out to me that the entire shower area needed to fall to the waste. So, we looked at another option there, which made the shower smaller and really, I think inferior to the option for anyone living in that home.

So, where we landed on both the access for the dwelling at the main entry and for the bathroom is in this slide here and we've kept the carport and the patio all at the one level, but 150mm lower than the house. We have moved the stacking sliding door, which is our main point of entry and we have plenty of scope there for a ramp, which can either be a concrete ramp or manufactured off site and installed. We've shown that one as a 1:8 and as Lisa pointed out to me, if you are actually opening the door, you'd be a somewhat frustrated in trying to get that door open with a 1:8 slope without a landing at the top. But there is still room to pull that ramp back, but it's not a great outcome. But it does provide a compliant outcome if we pull that back and put a landing and with the bathroom, we've ended up falling the entire shower to a longer drain so that we meet the minimum requirements and we also get a really useful size of shower.

So, as I say very happy to get any feedback or questions, but it's been quite a journey.

Thank you.

Thanks for inviting me along. I guess the reason I'm here is because if you. This is new to everybody in the room.

There's no, there's no real case studies or experience out there and I guess if you look at the genetic strain. The closest to it is the LHA certification process. Of which this is an offshoot of it, with some changes and hence that's probably why I was asked to come along. So I hope you'll get something out of this.

To start I'd say to you that livable housing to me in the 13 years that I've been doing it. I had a number of reasons I did it.

One is because I'm getting closer, very very close to 70 now. So I'm starting to think about what it be like for people like me, living in houses like this. Secondly my background is Irish as you can probably tell. I don't know how you could tell, probably because you know me.

In Ireland they actually have a whole government department for the last 20 years, which are funded by the government for accessible housing. Because they really care about their old people. So I let you draw your own conclusions from that .

The other reason I was interested in this, is because people say to me what is livable housing?

I say it's like an airbag in your car right! You never know it's there. If you really need it, it will save your life. It's built into the cost, and I'd hate to be selling a car today without an airbag.

So that's what we're putting in. You'll go into the house, and you won't notice any difference. It will just function much better. I think I can say that after three or 400 of these including apartments. Including with tier one, builders were very difficult people to deal with at the best of times.

Right. So, I want to look at the case study with Shaun. So Shaun you have one minute, I'm going to take the other nine right. So I want to have a look at this.

We got involved in this right in the very early start. So reflecting back to the energy earlier on, earlier is better. Get right in there as early as you possibly can. That gives you the opportunity to, I guess to make a difference without impacting too much on the cost. Retrofitting is very dangerous and very expensive and so we don't want to do that if we can avoid it.

The difference between what we have now is mandatory requirements. Whereas LHA. I am going to refer to LHA as livable housing Australia not the guidelines, were guidelines and they were voluntary. So there was no smack of the handle if you didn't get them. Now it's going to be a bit more serious. So we do really need to think about this.

I am looking forward to showing you this particular development. There's a number of things about it, that are really interesting. Apart from all its energy profiles it had, which is exemplary from an energy point of view. We also looked or the government also looked at making it LHA silver throughout.

There is 189 town houses, oh sorry there is 189 lots on this. Of which 182 are terraces. The unique thing is these are built to boundary.

So the very front line of the unit is the boundary. So try getting a 1:14 pathway in that one. Landing on a 1200 or a 1200 by 1200 level area, so quite difficult. Side to side, there is about 50mm between the independent terraces. So it covers the whole, it basically covers the whole lot. They are back end loaded, so they have a laneway at the back that feeds in through the garage.

Okay, so I guess if you looked at this, you wouldn't say it's a standard sort of a project. But if I said it to you, in the concept of giving the livable housing. You would probably say gee this one would be bloody impossible! But in fact, it's been a really interesting journey. A really interesting journey and a very popular place.

It's also got a railway on one side and Beams Road on the other. It's close to Carseldine, so it's quite attractive to people living in there. When I go and do my final check on the building, clients often say. What's it all about? Why are we doing this? When I point it out to them, they go oh yeah, you're right! It's easy to get the pram in or you know if I have a set of crutches or whatever. It all makes just so much sense.

Believe me in my 40 years in Australia and all of that in the building industry. We've come up against much bigger rocks to swallow than this. Over the period of time, we really have. We're great people builders, we're very clever people. We're so clever that we built a 102 story Empire State Building, in one year and 48 days. One unit completed every 4.4 days, that's how smart we are. Everybody said you couldn't do it and you couldn't drop a hammer because it would fall 102 stories down and take someone out.

For those that are interested in their workplace health and safety because I notice that great photograph you had of the child with the hammer. I thought oh health and safety will be in trouble here. They factored in 102 people will die on that job, one a floor. They ended up with three people dying on that job over 12 months.

So that's what we can do if we really put our mind to it. I think this is a great example. You'll find the answers, they're there. They're like the Lord of the Rings, they're in the bottom of that pool you pick them up, put them on and away you go all right.

So I really want to talk now about that little caption down the bottom. About the size of our frontages. The biggest frontage is 70% smaller than the exemption frontage.

We are building on four and a half metre frontages. 6 metre frontages and 8 metre frontages and we managed to get them all silver, so far. Right Shaun? Yeah, so far. Okay, so we're going from 8.4 to 4.6. So frontages, while they are an issue. And pathways while they are an issue, can certainly be overcome.

Okay let's see how we go from here. Right, so here's my advice. I have three slides to show you from my advice.

The first thing is give advice early. Get in there early, don't wait. If you wait, you're too late. It won't work, get in early. Design around these issues. Don't try and paint over the cracks. You can't do it, it won't work. Anyway if the cracks are more than 5mm you can't have them.

Make sure that you comment, which I had to do. Comment, advise and provisionally stamp these at design. Just because these aren't LHA certified, don't let that go. Get your designer, even internally and say I want your signature in the bottom of this. That you've covered this, and we've got all these points covered. Otherwise when it gets to site, the wolves are free. You could get anything at the end.

Make sure that you brief the builders, builders being subcontractors. Talk to them because the interest I get when I go. What are you doing? Why are you doing that? Because of this and that. In fact, I looked today, and I saw a stack of chairs with wheels on them. It's a great idea. Try going around the house with one of them in a standard house. We're seeing the need for this everywhere. Where we don't want to hurt our backs, we put wheels on the chairs because we don't want to lift them up. So there's logic all here.

Second thing. The third thing is I made myself available for phone calls. So that has to be in the office and the site have to work very closely. I'm building this out of my experience with Shaun and site. Then I had to site visit at practical completion, to make sure that what was done was done. Tolerances, zero. All I can tell you because I've not yet met anybody to define a tolerance and keep to it.

Aah 3 or 4mm won't matter. Yes, it will. Why? Because it's not zero but 3 or 4mm. If I let it go. It will be, but you let me go with that up there, so why can't I get away with this down here. Be careful, design for zero. If you can talk someone into giving you more, then good on you but design for it.

Now here's a home. I'm not stealing any plans here because this never actually got built. The learnings I had were, finished levels are crucial. Site levels are crucial. Over here, there was

about $100,000 spent on re leveling a big part of one of the stages. The civil guys said oh but it's only that much out. But it wasn't at the level he was asked to do; he was used to doing it wrong and wrong becomes right when you do it often enough.

Dual entries wherever you can. Front door and from the garage, that way if you bugger one up the other one might work. If you bugger both up, you're in big trouble. I've warned you, both entries if you can.

Document dimensions are to stud not to finish. I had one major builder on the Sunshine Coast have to pull down a complete hallway, because he measured. What they did was, they started at the edge of the slab. The framers and they built in, whatever's left in the middle that's the corridor. No, now you measure in the middle and you go out because if the bedrooms are 5mm smaller it's fine but if the corridors are 5mm smaller, it  doesn't work. Just tricks of the trade as you go along. Corridor was as I said first.

Now when you have a shower compliant on the first floor. Remember even though it talks about ground floor being compliant. You really should have access to that via the corridor and door on the first floor has to be compliant. You can't go back to a 900 corridor if you've got to get up to that bathroom to have your shower. Level transitions internally, the number of times I get a change of spec. I've gone from tiles to vinyl floor. Suddenly we have 10mm for the carpet that was never there in the beginning. Think before you drive, oh sorry think before you.

Lessons learned. Check dimensions, design dimensions before contract. Make sure you put everything on the drawing, everything! If it's not on the drawing, it won't get picked up. You might say I've done this so many times but that's what computers allow us to do. Cut and paste, cut and paste and cut and paste. If it's there, they look at it. You say to the subcontractor, this is wrong. I didn't know about that! Did you read the plans? Oh I never noticed that. Well now,

it's his responsibility or her responsibility to fill or fix it.

Building designers engaged in finding solutions where issues occur. Don't try and do it yourself. Go back to the designer and the architect. Say, look we have a problem here. How are we going to resolve this? Zero tolerance, as I said near enough just isn't good enough.

There are set pinch points, it's not complicated. There's certain areas that you could get it wrong. Falls on paths, I've knocked a lot of people on that. Corridor widths knocked a few people on that. Intrusions into clear spaces. You know 1200 by 900, in front of the thing and then there's something sticking into that.

Use your logic. Your certifier should say. Well if you're going to put a toilet roll holder there. Providing the toilet roll holder isn't any bigger than the grab rail that's going to go on in there eventually, it's fine. Because you got to logically think this. You're not out to prosecute you're out to try and accommodate. The 5mm step change of course is always the issue.

So just in closing. Im finished, I'm finished, I'm finished. Right just some photographs of the houses outside.

There's a threshold with the drain. this is one of Shaun's. The saddle goes across and there's a little compliant 1428 ramp. Remember you have a 1200 by 1200 level area outside. Garages be careful of intrusion. If you use the garage, it has to be 5.4 by 3.2 not 3.2 with a hot water system in it. The idea is that you have got to be able to get around it. Remember if you're coming in from the garage you still have to give the 1200 by 1200 level area at the garage door. You can't just decide it doesn't count in here.

So what we're trying to do here is make these houses more effective and efficient, for everyone in the family. Everybody, so that when Granny comes around, she can have a wee. She can have a shower and she'll be happy. Instead of, I got to go now because I got to go to the toilet. I can't sit in your toilet because I can't fit and you're not coming in with me.

It's fair, it's just common practice. We should do that for people and respect them. That's it. Shaun over to you.

Good afternoon, I'm here on behalf of Thompson Sustainable Homes to talk about a topic here constructing homes with livable housing Australian features. Today I'll be coming at this from a builder’s perspective, so there a couple of key points that I think that takes to make work on site.

First of all, understanding the LHA guidelines ourself was key. When I first came across these set of guidelines, I really had to wrap my head around what they were really meant for our builds. Not just about the accessibility but making sure that these homes were built and ready for present and for future. Once we got a handle on it, you can see how these guidelines can be woven into the build process quite easily.

However, it wasn't just up for us as the builders, everyone involved, every trade on site, needs to be on the same page, that means they need to understand the LHA guidelines, designs and followed follow them to the letter. Then it's my job to make sure that this happens at a commencement of the works. Whether it's the chippies, the tilers, or any other trade involved, the LHA that they all need to be briefed properly and definitely a good way to keep on top of it, is creating like a briefing sheet that covers all the LHA features they'll be working on, handed out at commencement of works and that sort of sets the expectations on the day.

Next was overseeing the work in that carried out. My finishing supervisor and myself, need to be out there keeping an eye on all things that are done and making sure that these LHA features are being built and correctly. If something's off, it's on us to catch it and get sorted before it becomes a bigger issue.

Next is yeah managing the cost of these installs is another big part with these affordable houses built at Carseldine Village, we worked to a budget. But with a bit of planning, we can work with these features in without sending cost through the roof and it's a it was about being smart, with the resources and making sure that our team knows what we were doing from the start. And then obviously we got in the, in the design element, if things didn't go to plan, rectification was obviously our only choice to get back on track, which this has happened on occasion, at the beginning of these builds. But yeah, we're pretty much on top of it now and as soon as we catch it, the less pain it is down the line.

Another sort of a big threat actually on site is the subcontractor churn. We've got new faces on site all time day-to-day and if they're not up speed with what we're doing with LHA things, things can go wrong pretty fast. That's why you know the briefing sheet I mentioned earlier, was about, so important to keep it it's a simple step, but it helps everyone align no matter what, who's on site that day.

To wrap it up, building with livable housing guidelines isn't just about following the rules. It’s about understanding the guidelines themselves, making sure the trades are on board, overseeing the work, managing the cost, having those briefing sheets and the day, it's a team effort and we're definitely achieving, it's definitely achievable. But when we do it right, we're building homes that are better for everyone.

Thanks.

Paige Ridgewell: So our first question is the gentleman over the back here thank you.

Tony Mitchell: Thank you everybody it's been a wonderful morning. Tony Mitchell Master Builders. Jeff, on the missing hot plate, there's a similar problem when floor coverings haven't been installed. What's your position on that?

Geoff Mitchell: Another good one sorry, I was going to mention that was on my notes but I forgot to mention it. Yes those thresholds, you got 5 millimetre thresholds. A lot of times we do not have, we might have the tiles in the bathroom, but not the coverings in the in the hallways. Again we're going to need the evidence of what's happening.

Tony Mitchell: What is happening or what is about to happen?

Geoff Mitchell: What is about to happen. We may need to follow up information. We'll probably list it as a defect, that you've got an excess of 5 millimetres. We're going to need evidence that that's rectified.

Tony Mitchell: So no form 21?

Geoff Mitchell: No form 21 because we have excess of 5 millimetres.

Tony Mitchell: And the builder doesn't get paid and the owner can't move in.

Geoff Mitchell: And that becomes a problem when the owners are doing their own floor coverings.

Tony Mitchell: Absolutely, it's a great concern for all of us, thank you.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay another question. Just wait and can you please introduce yourself.

Tori Walker: Hi I'm Tori I manage my own business called Building Energy Ratings and Advice. Just a quick question on the whole of home appliances. In NatHERS whole of home, there is a provision for default appliances and as certifiers, fun times you got to know what they all are. But with DTS (Deemed to Satisfy) there's only a minimum option. If our clients are not going to put in anything. In NatHERS we can do none slash default, but in deemed to satisfy, we don't have that option. Discuss, what would you do in that situation?

Geoff Mitchell: Well that's going to be picked up at approval stage if we don't have that information. We're going to need that confirmation of how you're complying with that energy at the start.

Tori Walker: But if my certificate says they need to have a non-ducted aircon of minimum 2.5 stars and they don't, because they're not intending to put any in, is that non-compliance?

Geoff Mitchell: Yes it is because you will not reach your energy targets. You haven't complied with.

Tori Walker: But.

Geoff Mitchell: We're going to be looking at. So you look at the NatHERS certificate, it's got all that information on there. What the systems are. In fact the NatHERS certificate got that lovely little checklist on the back which is great, we're actually.

Tori Walker: Yep.

Geoff Mitchell: Adopting that into our field checklists. But in your case the DTS. If the DTS requirement that we've approved is part of the energy assessment report says you've got a 2.5, you know, air conditioning unit. We're going to want to see that, we're going to need a certificate on that unit to say it complies.

Tori Walker: Yeah but if they are never intending to put aircon in. It's probably more a question for policy isn't it, because I think it is a little bit of a gap? Anyway thanks.

Geoff Mitchell: Yeah as I said we don't have the options. It either complies or it doesn't.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay thank you. Next question. We've got one online at the back.

Anastasia Tritchler: And this is a bit of a technical question. It's what's considered to be a steep lot and therefore is exempt from step free entry and does that, does the step free entry include the path and entry itself? It's what is considered a steep lot and is therefore exempt from step free entry.

John Moynihan: Generally under LHA it's 1:14 or greater is considered to be a steep block. I consider it one I can't walk up, but that's not relevant I suppose. And so this, look of the ones that I've, of the certifications I've done I'd say probably 95% of people come through the garage. The garage is the default entry. It's very very unusual, certainly out with at Carseldine we have a few that are entry because, being on boundary if it's flush then we can get a fall. But, generally if if, if at first glance is you're not going to make it and if your contours are telling you which, contours are remember are at random differences, so you can get bumps between contours that you'll never pick up. But 1:14 as I understand it, if you if it's greater than 1:14 then it's exempt. Am I right in that?

Anastasia Tritchler: Lisa has something to contribute thanks.

Lisa Edwards: I just wanted to add that it's relating to the area where the path is to be constructed, not to the entire site. And also, just to add that if there's more than one option for where the path could go, then you're not exempt. If there's another compliant option. So it's about using your imagination about where that path might go, and there's more than one option generally.

Anastasia Tritchler: Thank you both.

Paige Ridgewell: Any more online questions?

Anastasia Tritchler: I have one, and it is if a project is not exempt from providing an accessible entry, can a performance solution be used for exemption?

Geoff Mitchell: Yeah it's a performance-based code. Yeah it's a

Anastasia Tritchler: And.

Geoff Mitchell: performance-based code, so that is a level of acceptance. If you meet the performance requirement and the QDC is written in performance requirements terms as well.

Anastasia Tritchler: And the second part to that question is can the additional cost of a ramp be considered as the basis for exemption?

Geoff Mitchell: Absolutely no mention of that in this legislation about that. Bit different in the DDA (Disability Discrimination Act) legislation but there's nothing in this legislation that that would allow that to be an issue or a consideration.

Anastasia Tritchler: Thank you.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay, does anyone, we've got another question down the front here thanks.

Greg Willson: Hi my name is Greg. I'm a builder… working? Mine is to do with the grading of floor wastes and the question that we have a range of acceptable solutions given to us in the QDC 4.5. But the non-mandatory waste, the ones outside the shower, basically it says that where a floor waste installed, we do all of these things, so that be grading to that floor waste, overflows to basins, water stops. So it's been explained to me that if we do not put that non-required floor waste in we don't do anything. Is that the intent of QDC?

Debbie Johnson: I'll answer that because that was, that was a conscious decision with our job that we didn't put in the floor waste in the, in the wet area. We just stuck to the enclosed shower, and that was to do with the implications of once you put it in and the cost and concern raised by my client. So but clearly that's not a desirable outcome. But that is an outcome that is lawful currently.

Greg Willson: To my mind the solution of putting overflows to all your fittings and fixtures and flood stops to your flexible hoses, is the mandatory part of what we're trying to achieve and not flooding the rest of the house. But soon as you don't put a floor waste in there is nothing there to prevent that happening, although by the way the code is written you don't do anything. It seems counterintuitive to have that written in that way. But everyone's nodding so that's what we keep doing.

Geoff Mitchell: Then there's the argument is it a floor waste or is it a relief gully?

Paige Ridgewell: Okay we have another question up the back here.

Kerry Apelt: Glad you mentioned that, Kerry Apelt is my name I'm with the Master Plumbers Association. Partly a question partly a statement. AS3500 part 2.21 which is the current standard for sanitary plumbing and drainage in Australia, does not make any mention of a floor waste. There's no such thing as far as it's… it's a 'floor waste gully' i.e. a gully trap. And there are two reasons why you'd put that in. First of all it was originally intended for close bathrooms the likes of what we would call a single stack system in multi-unit highrise. Where you could run all your pipes to the floor waste to reduce the height of the ceiling underneath and the number of junctions and individual waste pipes that were intended to drain those fixtures in that room. Secondly, the idea was that it could also act as a floor drain in the event that a fixture was to overflow or a pipe was to burst. Now that's where there seems to be a discrepancy between the ABCB and the Plumbing Code of Australia, is they don't recognize the difference between a floor waste and a floor waste gully. So coming to the statement part of it and I'll address this to Debbie if you don't mind. I was interested in your plans about the channel drain in the shower. What I would like to builders and others to consider in their designs, is where is the plumber slash drainer going to run their pipes? In that scenario, particularly on a zero lot boundary, it would have been very common for that plumber to decide to run the basin waste to that shower drain and call it

Debbie Johnson: Correct.

Kerry Apelt: a floor waste gully. However you would have to then consider in your design the width of your floor drain, because in a floor waste gully you cannot reduce the vertical pipe of the floor waste gully. So you would have to have a shower drain that would have to have a minimum of an 80 millimetre outlet.

Debbie Johnson: Mmmm so that was a, not a zero boundary situation and it was a slab on ground raised above natural ground. So we had you know a plenty of height underneath the finished floor level of the slab to do whatever drainage was necessary underneath. But, yeah so it was, it was a conscious decision not to put that floor waste in. And I did have a few notes on that but ran out of time. So but that was all part of the conversation that is involved as. And so we're not just looking at livable housing and floor waste in this discussion today or energy efficiency from a builders and a designers perspective and probably from everyone's perspective, we look at everything that touches on these things as well and how it affects it, yeah.

Kerry Apelt: It's just that when you, the minimum size of a shower outlet is 40 millimetres and I'm not picking on this product, but if I look at that one it's a… rate, it's got a 40 millimetre outlet. So under no circumstances from a plumbing compliance can I stick that on the top of a floor waste gully and call it a shower drain,

Debbie Johnson: Yeah, right, good.

Paige Ridgewell: Okay thank you another question? Okay up the back there.

Diane Johnson: - Thank you. Diane Johnson from Master Builders. I just and to make a little plug having listened to John and Geoff's presentation with the details of things to know and things to think about, we've worked with the AIBS and the building certifiers and the building designers and the BDAA to come up with a documentation guide that tries to step out the issues that we've found going through the process, and that's available on our website but we might go back and look at a version two after hearing you speak today. There's a couple of things I think we may have missed, but we went through exactly the same process. But a question I think particularly for Shaun and John on the Carseldine project, in dealing with that small and probably Peter's come up with this as well, those smaller footprints that increasing dimensions and areas in some places mean you have to take it necessarily from somewhere else. Have there been design compromises that you've had to just deal with, or you've been able to find some smart ways to manage that you haven't actually had to compromise some of the other living areas that are also important?

John Moynihan: Okay in talking about a compromise and taking stuff from one place to another. That automatically says it's predetermined what the floor plan in you're adjusting it. With these ones out here, they were designed for the lot, so it wasn't a matter of what you lost, you didn't have it in the first place until you put on paper. And so a big interaction between me and the builders and well with the builder's designers, was getting that opportunity of them sending me down stuff and I'm like a typical one going back to just point, you know, if they showed me a corridor that was under 1050 wide I'd go back and say you ain't going to make this one, because you could pick those things up, and so picking them up early, means you're not actually taking anything away from anything because effectively it doesn't exist until you design it to the size you have to design it to meet the requirements of the thing. I know that sounds a stupid way of putting it, but what I'm saying is, if you're trying to retrofit this into an existing fleet of houses, then yes it probably will mean you're going to lose it. But in the 40 years I've been involved in this industry I've yet to find someone can walk into a room that's 3 metres by 3.5 and say, God this looks like it's about 20 millimetres too small. People don't pick it, but they'll pick it in a corridor that's a metre wide, but they won't pick it in a room that's 3 metres wide. So you can afford to take a little bit out, because if you don't give it to them first. So the people that bought these houses, here's your plan and they went, oh great what size is that bedroom? 3 metres, oh okay what size is that? That's fine, even though they didn't come in with a preconceived idea that bedroom should be bigger. I know it, I know it's probably not answering your question. Well the pinch points I was talking about are those areas of the 1200 by 900, your 850 doors etcetera, they're the pinch points right. To me the rest of it comes after that. What you're left over with, that's what you have from the point of view of going on a house. I don't think you can do it the other way around. If a client says I want this room to be this size, then they have to give up room from another size that's not in the pinch point house rooms. That's the only way you can do it otherwise you go around circles. Remember you're designing it.

Peter Nelson: And in the end Gary raised this before. In the MMC program we made a gold level compliancy not just silver so we exceed that. Corridor is a really good example. We did some display villas around 1.2 metre wide corridors, and we got survey back. Like yes there's the compliancy about width and accessibility, but there's the amenity, and everyone kind of went geez these 1.2 corridors they're really good, they provide greater amenity to actually utilize them for just circulation. You can put a sideboard in there if you if you're not requiring circulation, so it's more than just about compliancy, it's actually about providing higher forms of amenity and also future proofing for aging in place.

John Moynihan: When I was in with Jennings in the 80s in their design thing, we were making corridors that size then. And they, and it's just been a, it's just been followed on, we've just carried it through. So this change is actually in, is long overdue for us to start thinking about the livability of the houses, rather than can I get four bedrooms in instead of, instead of something that the clients will actually get, so I'll talk to you about it after day.

Paige Ridgewell: - Okay, we are at time. Unless there is one more burning question, I'm going to call it right here. Okay so on that note please join with me in thanking the panel firstly.

Geoff Mitchell: Thank you, everyone for attending.

John actually took most of my stuff out because what John talked about, those tolerances and bits and pieces is really where I'm going to go. So it's probably apt that I'm last because we're always the last barrier to you getting that occupancy permit. You've got to get past us and just remember this is as new to us, as it is to you.

I suppose first thing is the topic, building certifiers perspective. I probably prefix this by saying it's a building certifiers perspective, because in Queensland we're all licensed individually. I can guarantee you that what I'm going to say here will be followed by my 20 certifiers that work for me. But it may not be, what every certifier will require. I hope it's going to give us a relatively good cross-section of what you should be expecting certifiers to be asking for. And at the end, again what we'll be looking for.

I know there's a lot of people in here who understand, what we are and what we do. In essence, a building certifier. Now we can be a building certifier, who is in private practice or in local government. It doesn't matter, we're all called building certifiers, and we are regulated by the building Act and the building regs.

Basically you'll see our function is there to assess whether proposed building work complies, with acceptable health and safety standards called up the by the building legislation. We issue the approvals for building work. We carry out inspections of building work, to see that it complies with any of the acts and the conditions on the approvals. We issue the final inspection certificate or certificate of occupancy, that we have for classes other than class 1 buildings. We also have the power to take necessary action to ensure building work complies. It's one of the unpleasant side effects, that we do have enforcement powers that we have to undertake.

So when we come back to our role in the actual construction phase. The Act requires us to inspect attached class 1a dwellings, at certain mandatory times. The first one is at the excavations stage or prior to the slab being poured. That first inspection stage, the Act requires that only a building certifier can sign that stage. Now 99.9% of builders that we work with, use engineers to look at the structural aspects of those foundations. The engineer cannot sign off the stage, a certifier must sign off that stage. What a lot of engineers forget, is that when they're doing those inspections, they are acting for the building certifier. They're giving us inspection help, which is defined in the regulations. They are a competent person, acting for us and a lot of engineers forget that.

The next stage is the framing. Now there's a little bit of a crossover here, between what's in the Act and what's in our guidelines. The Act says, where there's bracing for a frame consists of cladding or lining. Where the bracing is part of that, after the cladding or lining is fixed. Now, that's a bit of an issue because the inspection guidelines also ask us to look at tie down, member sizes, all these other things. So if we get to a frame and it's lined, we can't see anything.

This is going to become an issue, as we look at these other things we need to do for the livable housing. The last time we come to the site, is at the completion of all those aspects. We're looking for the building to be finished and I'm going to talk about some of the issues we have with that.

So let's look at design stage and approval stage. Before we give an approval to build, what are we going to need. We're going to need designers to be putting more information on plans. The plan quality in Queensland, I have to say is abominable.

I look at what we have to require in New South Wales, particularly now in class 2 buildings. In New South Wales and some of the other jurisdictions that I work in and internationally, the quality of plans that are required. I do a lot of work in the US and in New Zealand and the plan quality there is, ours just don't even come a patch on it. We're going to need to see more information on plans.

So about the step-free access. If you're going to apply for the concession, you can't just say “oh well it's greater than 1 in 14”. That's not going to work. We're going to need the proof that gradient exceeds 1 in 14. Or if you can't get the gradients for your ramps, your 9 metres for
1 in 14, your 15 metres for 1 in 20. We're going to need to see that, to say that you can't do it.

If you don't apply for the concession, we're still going to need that information anyway. Because we're going to need to see if you're using the pathway. We're going to need to see that path, the details, the locations, the widths, the gradients. Because we're going to be using that document at the end, to make sure you've met those gradients.

If you're using pertinent garage provisions, we're going to need that clearly identified. We're going to look to see that you've got that clear space, that John mentions. It's clear space. We're going to look at the entry into the building. So this is more information, we're going to need on those plans.

Also, we start looking at the thresholds. Now Debbie explained some of the issues she had trying to get into that building, she designed. We're going to need to see those details. And particularly if it's the entrance, the method of weatherproofing. There's other provisions in the NCC that cover all this stuff, that conflict well not conflict, complement these that we have to look at.

Door schedules, we're going to need to see your door schedule to make sure you specified the correct doors. We're going to need to see those corridor widths and as John mentioned, remember finished surfaces. Plans today from designers, dimension to the structural framing. If we see a 1 metre hallway on a plan, we're going to say your hallway is not wide enough. You must consider those structural finishes. The wall reinforcement, we need to know how you propose to do it. There's several options, in providing that wall reinforcement. We're going to need to see, what method you're going to use and what bathroom it's going to be in.

The sanitary compartments, we're going to make need to make sure that you've got the circulation spaces that are required in those compartments.

For showers, we're going to need to see what entry detail you've decided to pick. Because again there are a number of options. Floor wastes, we're going to need to see the location, the falls. Whether you're using the QDC MP 4.5 requirements, also comes into waterproofing as well.

So now you've actually got your building approval. What happens through construction? So the first time we're probably back on the site, is at frame stage. Remember as a building certifier we're not a Clerk of Works, we're not a supervisor, we don't come to the site every day.

There are mandatory stages we have to come. I'd love to have more inspections; I make good money out of inspections. Builders don't seem to like to pay the extra bills for other inspections though. The legislation allows us to specify additional inspections if we want. The legislation also allows the owner to request additional inspections from the certifier, a lot of people aren't aware

of that.

So this might be the first time we're back on site. We're going to look at probably the step free access, maybe ask the questions have you considered it?

If the building's lined, we're going to be asking a few questions. And what we're seeing a lot on framing is “ah we're not doing the wall reinforcing till next week, got the guys coming back to do that.”

We're going to need to see that or get evidence of that wall reinforcing. Door widths and passage widths. Have linings been allowed for, bathroom sizes but are these the certifiers responsibility at this stage of the build? We don't know what wall linings you're going to put in there.

We're there looking at aspects in our inspection guidelines. The inspection guidelines specify what we need to look at. At this stage this is back on the builder, his workmanship. However if you don't get it right here, it's going to be a problem when we get to the final.

So here we are, we're coming to do the final inspection. Your access way, if the access way is part of the proposal, we're going to check the gradients. All my certifiers carry a digital level.

We have in the past only used these for accessible facilities in class 2 to 9 buildings. I've now issued these to all my residential inspectors because they're going to need them for the LHA.

Step free access, if it's ramped the gradients, the dimensions, the parking space size, is it clear? John mentioned, does it have a dirty great hot water system sitting in it now.

Weatherproofing, a big one for us. Outside the LHA stuff but it's still a big problem for us. How have we addressed that step free entry. So we get to the entrance, the widths, the thresholds, the gradients and dimensions, the sill height, the 5mm max, max, 5mm not 6.

5mm maximum, John said several times the tolerance is zero. We do not have tolerances.

Internal, all my inspectors carry digital measuring tape. You can't trust a metal tape, we use digital. Passage width, door clearance. We're going to put a digital measure on your passage width. If it's not one metre it will not comply. Not 998mm, 1 metre.

Sanitary compartments, dimensions, clearances, we looked at. John mentioned a very good point about toilet roll holders and things like that. We will take a pragmatic approach to those elements because it's very similar to what we have in AS1428.

The showers, if we're using the step down 5mm max, that's it it's maximum. If it's a linear drain, whether they have the deflectors as shown in the LHA or livable housing stuff. The waterproofing, how's that been done because the waterproofing requirements has other elements that you have to include with water stops and the like.

Floor wastes are your falls between 1 in 100 and 1 and 80, that's 1% and 1.25%, not 1.26.

We have no tolerances; the regulations say between. Well you do have a tolerance between
1 and 80 and 1 and 100, we do have a tolerance there. If you're using the weir, the floor height above the waste is a minimum 10mm not 8. I don't want to be standing in court when there has been an overflow into the hallway for an insurance claim. I can't say to the judge well it was only 8, surely that's not a problem. I'm still going to wear it because it's not 10. I'll have the builder very closely beside me, trying to justify that as well. So again, falls not to exceed 1 in 80 maximum gradients of 1 and 8.

So that's on the livable housing side, yep getting there. Okay so, two minutes that's all I got two slides.

Back on the energy efficiency, we looked at this morning. Really the changes for us on the fabric side, is no real different to what a certifier is looking for now. Are your colours correct? We need evidence of that insulation. We need evidence of window compliance. We need evidence of lighting compliance. We need evidence of that fan compliance. Did you specify 900mm fans or 1200mm fans and we got 900mm fans, those are the sorts of things we going to look at.

Whole of home creates another interesting one because now we're going to have to look at other elements. The evidence of heating and cooling, evidence the water heater is as per the approval. Evidence the pool pumps are as specified. Evidence the photovoltaics are as specified.

The software inputs into the reports now look at appliances, gas, electric and induction. Now we're not going to check to see if it's a Miele versus a Westing House. But we will need to know whether it's changed from electric to induction or to gas. The other problem we have here, is in a lot of cases, appliances are not in the building when we do the final because they have a nasty habit of disappearing. Builders like to put them in just before they hand over. So generally all we'll see, will be a cable hanging out the wall and a cut out in a bench.

So as I said, we're going to need more information on the plans. We're going to be checking those details on site and currently there is no tolerances. That's what we have to work with, thank you.